My New 50 Cal Wildcat

[sixonetonoffun]

Raining and no memorial day picnics here. Leaves me with way too much free time!

[sixonetonoffun]

I think my primer piercing was/is from new brass introduced. Brass the pockets haven't loosened up on yet. I don't have a good tool to uniform them yet other the a lyman and rcbs swagger. That doesn't do anything for depth. Imagine they will be fine after a few firings... May have to look at some other primers.

[Blitzfike]

One thing to be careful of with this beast is setting headspace with over-crimped brass. I found early on that if I used much crimp on the brass used to set headspace, after a couple of firings the cases have grown enough to cause drastic pressure increases when the neck is caught in the rifling. I had to go back to virtually no crimp and using the 50 beowolf die to set neck tension and then bullets swaged to .5015 for proper retention. I was getting very erratic velocities with the previous situation and had some blown primers as well. All this with IMR-4895 which should be fairly forgiving in this thing. As soon as I set headspace with an empty brass trimmed to the length I decided on, my problems with pressure spikes went away. You probably aren't seeing that particular issue, but just in case, I thought I'd share my experiences. Jim

[sixonetonoffun]

I agree headspace was my biggest issue the first season playing with this. I am still using the opened 500 s&w die to size between each reload. Currently here is my setup.
Cheap RCBS 3-DIE CARB ROLL/CRIMP 500 S&W/SPL PN/23812
Hornady 500 S&W taper crimp

Headspaced 2.65
Trim length 2.618-2.62
Process:
Tumble wet with SS pins.
F/L size yes some stretch
Trim to 2.62 or just under.
Chamfer/deburr withh rcbs tool then lyman vld on inside. Check length adjust if needed.
Dry tumble to remove any lube ect..
Prime with RCBS hand tool. (Might try a bench mounted one see if added leverage helps with seating new cases.)
Weigh charges fill cases.
Add filler as needed to achieve desired compression. Usually just about equal to the width of the canelure or slightly less if over 100% powder.
Push start bullets in by hand.
Use the rcbs r/c die to compress load but not crimp.
Use Hornady taper crimp die for final crimp. I have been aggressively crimping.

Early on I tried to let the brass grow to chamber size and length. But ran into the issue you raised with the brass latching on to the rifling and creating all sorts of problems. Most noted extraction.

Due to lack of experience mainly it took me longer then you to figure out wtf was happening. I gladly admit my folly if it prevents someone else from repeating it.

I find it interesting your knurling to fit. This is something I've been researching lately. Looking at the possibility of using .505 jacketed bullets for the higher bc. But it doesn't look very doable. Maybe when the bore is shot out!

Still want to pickup a beowulf die set, but feeding this monster is about all I can do this year.

[Blitzfike]

Sent you a PM

[sixonetonoffun]

Here is the Q/L BTSniper ran for me last year.

I can only fit 90grs in with this bullet which is what Q/L came up with as the max pressure load. I'm going to give one a try next time the chrono is set up to see if the velocity matches closely.

I think that a good estimate of max pressure at a specific velocity for this bullet can be extrapolated there. Probably a grain or 2 under just to error on the side of caution.

[Blitzfike]

I found some pretty close relations using quickload. I was impressed with the results. I've only been using it for the past month and have a lot to learn about it yet.

[sixonetonoffun]

I would like to have had QL to play with for this. But normally everything I have had... someone else has been there done that. This has really been a lot of firsts for me. First wildcat, straight walled cartridge, 50 cal, so on ect...

Has gotten me interested in aspects I'd not otherwise been inclined to consider. As well as look at other large caliber guns and cost vs practical use and more. This really is basically a modern 50-90 :-)

On the personal side this recoil wise is about as far as I want to go. (Shoulders aint what they used to be.)

Practical side is @100 yards reduced loads are a blast and many bullets from the .500 family are built with that range and lower velocity in mind.

[sixonetonoffun]

CCI 250 500gr FP/XTP over 80gr RL7
2215 High
2171 Low
2190 Avg.
ES 44
SD 14

Federal 215 500gr. FP/XTP over 80gr RL7
2209
2204
2202
avg. 2205 es 7 sd 3
This was the same brass used before 215 primers were just hot enough to push me off the bleeding edge. Test was a failure stopped after 3 rounds all 3 primers popped. Leaving me with 6 to pull apart. ES was very promising with the 215's but there are too many uncontrolled variables to draw any conclusions at all. Will continue to play with these 500's till they are gone but will not get any more. They seem to turn nearly to dust on impact and are not the bullet for any hunting.

Also shot the 90gr Ramshot TAC load it came in at the peak of the bleeding edge @2182 a little under the 2300 projected by Q/L but my load varies slightly from the input data.

Side note.
Lead Sled claimed the life of my Weaver Classic 400 circa 1970 model. May it RIP!

[Blitzfike]

Lead sled claimed a brand new Gameseeker Pro on my 375 H&H single shot. tough on shoulder or tough on scopes.. I still sue the lead sled for most of my workups. Jim

[sixonetonoffun]

So with the 500gr xtp 80gr rl7/215 load
Case head expansion was insane. From a new once fired case sized .528+ it grew to .532 for a .004 +- strain. Velocity avg. 2205 fps.

The 90gr tac load gave up a little velocity @2180-ish but case head measured .529 for a stretch of only .001 not scientific exactly but clearly worthy of further testing.

Measurements were done by caliper not mic. So there is some margin of error but... I'll take 2180 fps from a 500gr bullet happily.

[Blitzfike]

I'm going to be trying some WC-844 and WC-842 loads over the next couple of months, I'll have to do some serious development work with them in slow steps. The 844 is my go to powder for the 223 and the 842 works well in everything from the 223 to the 308. I have worked up loads with it for 223, 243, 22-250, 308, 30-30 win and 458 win mag. That gives me lots of examples to extrapolate from with it. As long as the chronograph works, I can get there. Anytime you have that much expansion of the case head, you are treading in dangerous waters. It takes lots of pressure to make the brass flow like that.

[sixonetonoffun]

Anytime you have that much expansion of the case head, you are treading in dangerous waters. It takes lots of pressure to make the brass flow like that.

I won't be ruining anymore brass like that. The signs were there. I just chose to ignore them.

On a happier note I may be able to salvage the old Weaver after all.

Look forward to seeing how your workup goes. Think pats had some wc844 would be great to see what works well with it.

[sixonetonoffun]

[scope eye]

So a 500 grainer at 2200 plus you got yourself a mini Howitzer.LOL

Dean

[sixonetonoffun]

Yep :-)
Its definitely not the bullet for velocity! 2150-ish is all its gonna take.

[sixonetonoffun]

Bullet choices for hunting. Price is currently close enough to not be a factor. Examples are Powdervalley.

I want to try the:
BARNES .500 325 GR XPB (20) $20.70
OR
SWIFT .499 / 50 CAL 325 GR AF/HP (50) $48.61

For deer and black bear either should more then work.

Both are tough expanding bullets.

The barnes might edge slightly ahead on range if it can be pushed fast enough. Also might feed from the magwell best.

The swift is rated for up to 3000 fps but is hp design with a lower bc.

The Barnes 375gr with its .261 bc seems to be a unicorn often spoke of but seldom seen.

I guess I'll try both and see which shoots best all around. Can't see there being much difference unless they just won't group. If thats the case I would stick with the Sierra 400gr JSP since it just flat out does 3 shots touching over and over.

[sixonetonoffun]

It says they experience .0035 expansion using 300 RUM cases too. Not the same same but simular. I would expect .0035 would increase the size of the flash hole substancially. Maybe I won't recycle those 3 pieces yet if they will size and prime decent.

[sixonetonoffun]

Not a full all out test but here is my test, load and results.

Which were suprising to me.

New cases not blown out yet.
500gr FP-XTP bullets
90gr Ramshot TAC

3 shots each.

Fed 215
2119 pierced
2129 H
2118 pierced & L
Avg. 2122
ES 11
SD 5

Rem 9 1/2
2140 Cold bore 1st shot of day
2140 L
2143 H
Avg. 2141
ES 3
SD 1

CCI 34
2127 L
2150 H
2143
2140 Avg.
ES 23
SD 10

CCI 250
2119 L
2122
2147 H
Avg. 2129
ES 28
SD 13

So obviously the Fed 215 primers are softer. Still with the right charge ES & SD are low and excellent for a mag primer.

The CCI's are tough but not as consistent as I'd like.

Rem 9 1/2 was the suprise to me. Tough and consistent. End of story. I only had them here for a friend who likes pure Remington everything. Bleeds green I guess. But I will definitely try the for the bullet & powder combination. Looks perfect together. The only 1 hole 3 shot group. The others did 2 touching but far from 3 in 1.

[sixonetonoffun]

[Blitzfike]

That's really good info.. I have some of the rem 9 1/2's and will try them. I guess the federals are surely weaker primer cups as the same velocity with the others didn't pierce. This past couple of weeks has been filled with doctor visits and trips to Texas to keep the grandkids while parents were traveling for work. I plan to do some shooting tomorrow and will see what I find then. Jim

[sixonetonoffun]

I do have to decrease the charge slightly. Even though tac is slower it is still piercing the 215's and thats just a little too on the edge for comfort. The 500gr bullets have a huge bearing surface. Pretty much equal to the bore.

[sixonetonoffun]

Midway in-stock notice came tonight for the 375gr Barnes XPB's. I ordered a couple boxes. Hopefully Powdervalley will have some soon too. Every where else I found them in either had high prices or wanted $17 S&H.

Finally ordered a 500 bullet puller collet. Have a few rounds that need to be pulled apart.

[sixonetonoffun]

So trying to figure out which powder to try with the Barnes xpb's.

Concern is even though the 375gr is a middle weight bullet most Barnes bullets build pressures faster then traditional cup and core bullets.

From testing done with rl7 with 350 & 500gr bullets I think something a little slower will deliver good velocities with much less pressure. Trouble is deciding what to buy next because I have nothing between rl7 & tac on hand. Some of the available choices would be:

RL10
H322
IMR 3031

Possibly
Benchmark
X-terminator

I would say 3031 if it wasn't too bulky to get a good load. Tac delivers well because of its density yielding 10grains more then small grain stick powder.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Will probably try 5744 & rl7 first and see where I get before flattening and piercing 215 primers.

[sixonetonoffun]

The XPB's came a day early. Bummer is cloudy and rainy for the next couple days. Might be a while before I get any testing done with them.

They do look like a better design for a rifle. Hope to find out soon!