So I've been toying with the idea of tactical carbine, and loathe the AR chassis and honestly the .223/5.56 as well.
Been looking at the Mini-14 in 7.62x39 (cheap plentiful ammo) and thought about having it rebarreled in 6.5 Grendel but figured the different taper to the case walls would drive me nuts. But then I saw its also offered in 6.8 SPC. Did a little internet wandering and saw that another forum online had been working on a wild cat for it, called the .264 RLB, but there is not a lot of info out there. the little bit I scrounged up numbers wise was....
6.8 SPC case, Akley improved, necked down to 6.5mm
85 grain pill @ 3200+ fps
107 grain pill @ 2900 fps
120 grain pill @ 2850 fps
Very similar numbers to the Grendel with a smaller diameter case.
Keeping in mind that a 6.5x55 can run a 120 grain pill at 2812 fps and 2108 ftlbs of energy, this little wildcat has gotten my attention. 6.5x55 ballistics in a tactical carbine? yes please.
anyone here play with this one or know anything more about its development?
And is this just a crazy flight of fancy???
One should be a tiny bit skeptical of the velocities. They are within about 100 ft/sec of factory loads for the .260 Remington, which has almost 50% more powder capacity and has a max pressure that is 5,000 psi higher.
2650 to 2750 is probably closer to what one can expect within the SPC pressure limits and a 24" barrel.
The maximum cartridge length of 2.500" means that it won't run in AR15 magazines where 2.3" is about the limit.
The 264RLB was a project by the guys over on reloadbench.com, and I followed about the last 70% of it's development. The project got started, basically, because one of the members wanted a low recoiling round for his 14 year old daughter to shoot and hunt with. He considered the 260Rem, but was disappointed in the inconsistent quality of the 260Rem brass, and didn't want to pay the high price of the alternatives. Anyhow, the project got started, and was the victum of many delays and setbacks. The case for the 264RLB is not exactly as you stated. When they finally got the reamer it had been ground with a dull tool. Instead of having an angle on the shoulder, the reamer was delivered with an inside radius for a shoulder. It took so long to get the reamer, they decided to keep it as it was. Last I heard, only one reamer had been made and 7 rifles had been chambered by it. Anyone wanting to build a 264RLB has to acquire that reamer, because it is "copywrited", or what ever you call it in this case. Ironically, buy the time the cartridge was in a shoot able rifle, the fellows 14 year old daughter was capable of shooting just about anything she wanted. At least one of the guys has shot it successfully in competition, and the principal developer took several deer with it, under various conditions, including a nice buck, running at 300yds. I think that bullet was a 120grn Nosler? Was it folly? Well, many of us in this sport do things "because we can", and there were times when I "dreamed" of having a chambering named after me. But I never did understand why the guy didn't just build his daughter a 6.8SPC, or a 250Savage, or a 6x45, etc., etc., etc.,? I don't know what is going on with the reloaderbench.com site, because when I try to go to the forum, it comes up "error"? On a related subject, a guy over on Gray Beard Outdoors, is developing what he is calling the 223 Short. Because he can, I suppose? This is the story in a nut shell, and I hope I didn't misrepresent anything. Given the situation with the 264RLB, for myself, there are to many suitable choices for any application for me to choose it. Hope this helps you make your decision. ;-))
Good Luck-Good Shooting......Jim
OK, it looks like reloadbench.com got "hacked". It looks like they are trying to get up and running with Reload Bench 2.
Last edited by FW Conch; 01-19-2014 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Update
Exactly the kind of replies I was looking for. Thanks guys. Especially FW Conch, thats way more detailed info than I was able to dig up online. I still like the idea, because I'm a 6.5 fan, but for what I'm looking for, the Grendel is probably a better fit. I'm just getting into this rifle and reloading mess, so pioneering a wildcat is probably outside my skill set. Figure a properly built mini-30 in 6.5x39 (does that exist? necked down 7.62x39 without blowing out the case walls ackley style?) would be a great truck gun with ballistics very similar to the 6.5x55 swede.
Figure the tapered case 6.5x39 would still work well with the mini-30 mags and whatnot. If I wanna go real nuts, I could have a spare barreled receiver (hey this is the savage forum right???) in 7.62x39 to shoot both cartridges. shoot the 7.62 stuff for cheap brass, then neck it down and hand load it as 6.5 to use with the other barreled action.
Talk to the guys at Black Hole Weaponry, they're in the process of bringing out an entire lineup of barrels in the necked-up and necked-down 6.8 chambering.
http://www.blackholeweaponry.proboar...scrollTo=11452
They're local to me, so I'm gonna stop in to find out more. I'm wanting the 22/6.8 myself.
Last edited by Hotolds442; 01-19-2014 at 10:45 PM.
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
I just ordered a 22/6.8 with their SHOT show promo code for 20% off. I was going to talk to them first, but the 20% expires tomorrow.Originally Posted by Hotolds442
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
Did you know there is a two-volume reloading manual on the market for the 6.5 Grendel? The books have discussions tuned to the needs of people just starting to reload with references on how to get started in addition to a wealth of reloading data. Even if one chooses to stay with factory loads, there are discussions of which bullets make the most sense for your hunting as well as success stories from hunters who are younger than 10 through to those old enough that they could be called "Old Goats." AR15Buildbox.com carries them. I don't remember the precise price but you can get the two-volume set for the price of a couple of boxes of cartridges.
Having mentioned the manual, I can also say that some folks have played with versions of the 7.62x39 necked down to 6.5 mm. Should you choose to go the wildcat route, you will have a cartridge that performs a lot like the Grendel.
If you do decide to go the wildcat route, you can use the book as a reference for general information about that class of cartridge as you work through your decision.
There is a book preview at 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook.
You can also lurk on the 65Grendel.com forum for a trove of info.
Other resources are the 65Grendel.com forum. BTW I just checked there and found that someone as already converted a Mini 30 to the Grendel and he seems happy with it! My Mini 30 is Now a Mini Grendel
Yup. They were pushing that little case awfully hard. I looked into it too but MGM wouldn't chamber it in a Contender so my interest ended there. I like wildcats as much as anyone but stop short of giving them magical powers. Often they get a lot more tame with pressure tested data.One should be a tiny bit skeptical of the velocities. They are within about 100 ft/sec of factory loads for the .260 Remington, which has almost 50% more powder capacity and has a max pressure that is 5,000 psi higher.
excellent information guys, thanks so much. I will look into the grendel reloading handbook for sure.
Hello, sorry i am responding to an old post, for my first post here.
I OWN a 264-RLB chambered bolt gun. I am pretty sure its more than 7 now, i dont remember exactly which serial number my personal one carries at the moment? But, its serial number is less than 10, lol.
Blazing speed is not the name of this cartridges game, efficiency is. My own is "throated" for 140grain pills. Its a small-ish looking case, and does LOOK a little odd to see such a diminutive case with such a long 6.5 poking out of it, particularly once i load it close to the lands. Most of the others are set up for 120 to 130 grain pills, if memory serves.
No blazing initial velocity, and the recoil is so mild its almost funny. the long 6.5mm pills, though, KEEP that initial velocity and shed the speed slower than many other cartridges with much larger capacities, and in so doing overtake the "faster" projectiles (if it were a race) a little ways out, and beat it the rest of the way out.
One of the rifles was successfully used to win a f-class long range match. A light sporter with an experienced shooter? trounced all the heavy unlimited "purpose built" rifles at 1000 yards.
Mine shoots 120 and 130 "fireforming" loads into MOA or better from 100 to 300 yards. Ran out of mil dots or i was playing further out at the 1k range i was at in indiana. My 140s with "bargain pill" remington bulk does MOA all day, and i mean ALL day out, again, to 300 or 350 before i "ran out of dots", lol.
the pills fall "straight down" at distance, with no left or right component at increased distance. The range i was at? was the worst wind conditions i EVER experienced in my LIFE. I am no "whisperer of the wind" and i found myself simply ignoring flags and pounding them in there.
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PS - I am "SEDstar", and i am the admin of the "re-booted" reload bench website. The original owner went A.W.O.L. and the site got hacked and never came back up. Myself and "Doc Henley" run it now, and the former "www.reloadbench(dot)com" is now www.reloadbench.NET
we're keeping the basic formula of the popular original parent site, growth is steady, and we finally have begun attracting "new" members, as in members that were never members of the original parent site. RLB is, as originally? a tight knit family... where all members can relax and not go through a lot of the "stuff" you see on some other sites.
Anyone even remotely interested in the 264-RLB cartridge? is more than welcome to stop by and discuss it with the people that made it, own it, and shoot it. Its honestly one of my favorite rifles, and not just for the novelty or for my knowing intimately the developers of the cartridge.
my own? is in a short light sporter stock, fairly short barrel, winchester 70... short light and "handy", making it a joy to lug around the fields from haybale to haybale on g-hog hunts. As accurate as several of my heavier stocked, heavier barreled guns. Its basically my "goto rifle" for anything that isnt going to "hunt me back", so to speak.
PPS - i USED to be a member at this forum, i am pretty sure? back in the say maybe? maybe i am mis-remembering, but i definitely was a member of a savage forum. I am a dedicated "barrel nut" enthusiast, and i look forward to getting a savage barrel chambered in this caliber one day in the near future.
we have a "pet gunsmith" thats officially retired on our site? that has the reamer to chamber rifles in this caliber for us. One gets made now and again.
Good to hear from you sedstar. There was some good stuff on the old site, glad to see some of you guys are up and running again.
I guess I saw last week that #8 has been, or is being built ?
The principals you fellows touted encouraged me to build a Savage 6.5Grendel, and I love it ! Thanks...Jim
thanks conch.
yeah, like you said, the 264RLB really and i mean REALLY opened my eyes. I never owned a 6.5mm cartridge before? I had always wanted a 6mm (243), but never a 6.5
I always wondered what "the deal was" with older guys being in LOVE with things like the various odd 6.5 chamberings. The guys that HAVE them LOVE them. the 6.5 284, the 6.5x55, etc etc... NOW i am a believer, lol... i start to think about things like a 6.5/06 if i was to get more into long range...
about the site? even with the big membership on the old site? a relative handful of "big members" accounted for almost all the posts, i suppose any site is like that, really. If you were to make a list on the old site of, say, "100 members you couldnt do without" i'd say the vast majority of them are there, it was the "core" of RLB that was saved.
we had "a thing" where 2 "core members" weirded out, and started... well... "ordering" us all, pretty much demanding and TELLING US "what" we were going to change, do, etc etc... those 2 formed "their own site" and peeled off some of the "refugees" and many went dual-membership... that other site about failed and has no posts, and everyone came back or stayed.
we got thru it, and, not only attracted more of the original members than ever before? we finally have started meaningful growth. The majority of the original "knowledge base" is there now, its locked up in the heads of the "core members". We now get joined by almost no "original members" and are attracting all new members who find us "cold" on google searches.
www.reloadbench.NET does not "compete" with THIS site, nor really any other gun site. We're highly specialized in RELOADING. Take THIS site for instance? you likely have one or a few forum sections dedicated JUST to reloading? Our ENTIRE site is dedicated to reloading. We get SPECIFIC... theres a separate forum section for just PRIMERS, another JUST for powder, etc etc.
Now, THIS site? obviously dedicated primarily to SAVAGE, and working on them... i saw forum sections dedicated to such specifics as triggers and axis vs traditional actions, etc etc. Same idea.
If i want to look for info on working on a SAVAGE and putting one together, i come here... i want to discuss primers or just SCALES... i go THERE. Apples and oranges.
i just joined here because this thread came up on a different google search, i wanted the guys wondering about the 264RLB cartridge to know its alive and well.
cheers!
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