.223 vs 5.56 Now Confused !!

[buggybuilder]

Now that I'm thourghly confused...................can I safely shoot LC 5.56 brass in my Savage Hog Hunter 1/9 twist? and how about in a Savage 12 with a 1/9 twist. All will be "middle of the road" loads, nothing loaded near MAX. After reading the lengthy article, I understood that the pressure would be from bullets being seated out as far as the lands. I do like to load my bullets as far out as possible, but nothing as far as touching the lands. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks

[drybean]

Yup

drybean

[thomae]

Ideally, when one handloads, one sizes one's brass and tailors one's load for one's own rifle.

You work up to a certain load. You measure your fired brass, regardless of brand, and then you size accordingly. You watch for pressure signs. You are not necessarily loading ammunition that conforms to either .223 remington, or 5.56 NATO specifications. You are making cartridges that are made to work in your rifle.

The "controversy" or "discussion" over .223 versus 5.56 Nato has to do with factory loaded (both commercial and MilSpec) ammunition.

[emtrescue6]

As long as you take build your loads up properly, yer good to go. I have probably 10k pieces of LC 556 brass I load for my many 223's...no problem!

[Jetpig]

There is NO difference in 556/223 brass. The only difference is in factory ammo. Anything labeled 556 is either loaded to higher 556 pressure or manufactured in a metric country or both. When you reload 556 brass using 223 data, you are loading 223. There is data available to load to 556 pressures. Most bolt rifles have no issues firing 556 pressure. Any firearm you shoot a true 556 out of will produce a flat primer but there is much more to identifying pressure signs than the primer. Same general rule always applies.
Start mid-range and work up. The standard reloading books are conservative on data. I have had this discussion with Sierra on more than one occasion. The powder manufacturers are a bit more liberal with their data.
Enjoy!

[emtrescue6]

There is NO difference in 556/223 brass. The only difference is in factory ammo. Anything labeled 556 is either loaded to higher 556 pressure or manufactured in a metric country or both. When you reload 556 brass using 223 data, you are loading 223. There is data available to load to 556 pressures. Most bolt rifles have no issues firing 556 pressure. Any firearm you shoot a true 556 out of will produce a flat primer but there is much more to identifying pressure signs than the primer. Same general rule always applies.
Start mid-range and work up. The standard reloading books are conservative on data. I have had this discussion with Sierra on more than one occasion. The powder manufacturers are a bit more liberal with their data.
Enjoy!

That's not completely accurate, especially when dealing with Mil-Spec 556 brass. 556 brass (and especially Mil-Spec stuff) has a thicker wall than 223 specs, which can create less volume and higher pressure.

[Rifleshooter308]

I have been loading Lake City brass for years. Both 5.56 and .308. Yes the internal volume is a bit less than commercial brass but the brass is tough and lasts much longer than most commercial, especially Federal which I hate. I have found that you will not have any issues by staying within the load limits of the manuals. My match load using the 77g SMK in is the top load for each powder I use. Never have any pressure signs.

[Jetpig]

That's not completely accurate, especially when dealing with Mil-Spec 556 brass. 556 brass (and especially Mil-Spec stuff) has a thicker wall than 223 specs, which can create less volume and higher pressure.

Also not completely true:
H2O capacity's per manuf:
Laupa Standard: 29.2g
Norma: 29.5g
Federal Gold: 29.8g
Hornady 223: 29.9g
Nosler: 30.1g
Hornady NATO, IMI NATO, Winchester Commercial and NATO: 30.2g
Laupa Match: 30.3g
Lake City NATO: 30.4g

[cvx444]

Good advice here.

Remember manufacturers change specs from time to time and sometimes buy from sub-suppliers. Be critical/questioning if the headstamp has changed.

Some non-NATO223/5.56 military brass appears to have less capacity than the "typical" cases and is coming from new sources.

The traditional wisdom has been that the small type FC brass lasted much longer than the large type FC brass. Lately I have seen
several different headstamps on Federal labeled brass and I am no longer sure of that.

Winchester brass had a great reputation but lately folks have complained of poor life. Also there has been talk on the web that they are shutting down the East Alton ammo facility and moving to Mississippi.

One of the differences in 223/5.56 chambers has been on the leade/freebore/throat. One way to get an idea of what you have is at what length does a certain bullet hit the lands. Military has a long chanber. SAAMI spec chamber is shorter. Heavy bullet shooters (75-80 grs.) generally like on in the middle. Northland and SSS have commented on this in the past and give good advice. You may want to search for them.

You plan of working up from tested manual loads is a good approach.

[RP12]

I'm just going to sit back and watch this debate again and see how long they let this one go.

[earl39]

Think i will try to slow this down a bit. This is not about ANY ammo this is only about brass and has nothing to do with what chamber will shoot what so lets not go down a road that has been over used. The OP asked if he could use 5.56 BRASS to make reloads for his 223. The answer is yes and as with any change of component the load should be worked up in the different brass. Why people want to sidetrack the question is beyond me.

[thomae]

Please. I am sure you meant well, but this is just the kind of post that ends up being less than helpful, especially if the original question is asked by a relatively new shooter.

Good advice here.

Remember manufacturers change specs from time to time and sometimes buy from sub-suppliers. Be critical/questioning if the headstamp has changed.

Some non-NATO223/5.56 military brass appears to have less capacity than the "typical" cases and is coming from new sources.

As with all brass, military or commercial, different manufacturers have different tolerances. Even different batches from the same manufacturing line can have differences in capacity, etc... This is why the standard safety recommendation still holds true: Any time you change a component, reduce your powder charge and work it up incrementally and carefully.

The traditional wisdom has been that the small type FC brass lasted much longer than the large type FC brass. Lately I have seen
several different headstamps on Federal labeled brass and I am no longer sure of that.

If you are not sure of something, why mention it. It only confuses the issue and is no help to a new shooter. I have been shooting a long time, and although I am by no means the know-it-all of .223 hand loading, this is the first time I have heard this particular "traditional wisdom."

Winchester brass had a great reputation but lately folks have complained of poor life. Also there has been talk on the web that they are shutting down the East Alton ammo facility and moving to Mississippi.

Ok, but so what?...and this has nothing to do with the OPs actual question about being able to use Lake City brass.

One of the differences in 223/5.56 chambers has been on the leade/freebore/throat. One way to get an idea of what you have is at what length does a certain bullet hit the lands. Military has a long chanber. SAAMI spec chamber is shorter. Heavy bullet shooters (75-80 grs.) generally like on in the middle. Northland and SSS have commented on this in the past and give good advice. You may want to search for them.

What you say is true, but is not germane to the OPs original questions and only serves to sidetrack this thread into the .223 versus 5.56 debate which has already been discussed ad-nauseum. Intentional or not, it is a thread hijack and shows that you didn't really pay attention to the original question at hand. Before you get your trousers in a knot, I will be the first to admit that from time to time, I don't go back to the beginning of a thread and really RTFQ (read the full question) before posting. Usually, I get in trouble from forum members who call me on it.

Your plan of working up from tested manual loads is a good approach.

Absolutely. That's the best thing you have said in this particular post.

The bottom line to the OP is that, yes, you can use Lake City brass as you work up a load for your rifle. Work up your load safely, cautiously, and incrementally, using published load data as a starting point.