Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 75 of 75

Thread: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

  1. #51
    Basic Member xhogboss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Black Hills
    Posts
    71

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures


    Thanks for posting the results of your research, sharpshooter. My uneducated guess would have been that the thrust bearing was the way to go. Your methods seem sound and I'm very willing to accept them over my guess. I'll be calling to schedule my action for a T&T job. You've convinced me. Thanks again.

    Fred
    12 FLV 204 Ruger

  2. #52
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    555

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I would to thank you Sharpshooter, first for all for posting all the data you have presented in this thread and second for being civil while doing it. In the previous thread it wasn't the fact you felt the idea was a problem that bothered me because it didn't, Greg even voiced the same concerns before you did. Had you raised the concerns, as Greg did, in a manner that didn't involve name calling I don't think I would have had one single issue. It was that fact it went from being civil among all those posting to a name calling diatribe after you opened the door for everyone to follow suit. It was just a bit disheartening to see someone, that people do admire, resort to tactics that most people despise. Before the name calling began there were concerns brought up that I acknowledged and that people were discussing. Perhaps a new idea, you could be benefitting from now, could have been brought to light had it not spiraled out of control the way it did. I hope you realize the outcome would have been the same, regardless of whether the name calling was introduced there or not. I do accept your apology.

    I am sure you spoke to Greg the second he got "that part", I know you seen it after it was posted in the moderators section. So hopefully he also let you know to that safety was my concern above all else. This is why I didn't post pictures for the less experienced shooters to duplicate if there was a concern. Every email I sent out prior mentioned safety and the second I realized there was a problem I contacted everybody, by email, PM, by phone and then by registered mail, letting them know to stop using "the part" for safety reasons. And despite what was implied in the other thread there only 8 people got them, your staff included, and not everyone as some seem to believe. In retrospect, yes reducing spring pressure was the wrong way to achieve a light bolt lift. And during the whole exchange I was honest and open by posting everything I did but above all else I felt I was civil.

    Despite what you may think I do not have anything against you, your staff, or this site. Too many gun people are tired of dealing with all the hassles and just stepping away from anything firearms related. I see it all the time, both locally and across the nation. You provide a service people want as well as a place to discuss and I appreciate both. I am not trying to replace anything you sell or do and I even let people know that there is nothing that can replace a quality T&T. For all those who have the new actions, with the cocking indicator bolts, the thrust bearing is reducing the bolt lift from stock. Albeit by a small amount, 5%, it is still a reduction. Considering that they are unable to use the single ball bearing method the thrust bearing seems to be a viable alternative for those who can't afford a T&T. Perhaps by finding a way to use less ball bearings in your design you can reduce that amount further for the cocking indicator guys.

    Again, I appreciate all the information you have provided. It is the data that proves the ball bearing method you championed is better than my idea. I am not sore or upset because my intent was never to show anyone up or try to sell something. It was just to provide people with an idea and perhaps that could get their creative juices flowing to come up with the next great idea that will make things better for everyone.

    I am glad this has gotten you more business as well. You mentioned before that every time there is some sort of turmoil involving you or something on your site your sales go up. I am glad to see this has done the same as well because I will be the first to wish you and your family all the best, both personally and professionally.

    Dolomite

  3. #53
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    333

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Being the nicest, best looking and youngest testing volunteer, I have been checking the mail and hoping for the kit.
    While reading these posts I had a thought.
    Boston Gear made sintered "Boston Bronze" bearing material that held oil and made very good bearings.
    Wouldn't a ~1/16" thick round piece of this material do the trick??
    Thanks,
    joe (extremely nice!!)b. (Have to check the mail.)

  4. #54
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    333

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I just looked at the Boston Gear sit. They make Bost-Bronz sintered bronze in bar stock and as thrust bearings. What is the OD required?? If you tell me, I'll look it up to se if they make such a thrust bearing.
    Thanks;
    joe b.

  5. #55
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    555

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by joeb33050
    Being the nicest, best looking and youngest testing volunteer, I have been checking the mail and hoping for the kit.
    While reading these posts I had a thought.
    Boston Gear made sintered "Boston Bronze" bearing material that held oil and made very good bearings.
    Wouldn't a ~1/16" thick round piece of this material do the trick??
    Thanks,
    joe (extremely nice!!)b. (Have to check the mail.)
    Just to put your mind at ease, you can stop waiting at the mailbox for something from me. I won't be giving anything out related to this or the previous kit. Seeing how you are "so handsome that young girls cluster around me at the beach" at age 72 you probably have more to be look forward to than anything I might send you. ;D

    Dolomite

  6. #56
    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    80
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by possum1
    Still say wish I had your "get up and go" Dolomite, because I'm not near "Disabled" as you. I think you know what I mean. Stay well, Dale
    +1 ;D

  7. #57
    82boy
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by dolomite_supafly
    I would to thank you Sharpshooter, ... turmoil involving you or something on your site your sales go up.
    Dolomite
    I would like to add, That this site is NOT owned by Sharp Shooters Supply or Fred Moreo (AKA Sharp Shooter), that this site is owned and maintained by Jim Baker (AKA MR. Furious) of Baker media. I wish to add that They are not related, and did not know each other until after the site was born. Sharp Shooter was picked, just like all the other staff, to be a moderator because of his incite and knowledge.The staff members are picked, and are located from all over United States, and Canada. The staff members are not employees of SSS, or SSS's staff. To the best of my knowledge SSS gives no preferential treatment to paid members over Non-paid members, or even knows the names of who is and who is not. I do know that Sharp Shooter pays advertising fees just like the rest of the advertisers.

    My wish would be, that all of the conspiracy theory nuts would put to rest that SSS and Savage shooters are one in the same. FACT IS, THEY ARE NOT! I can say this with the utmost confidence. I will get off my soap box now that I have addressed this issue that just fires me up to no end.

  8. #58
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    63

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by 82boy
    Quote Originally Posted by dolomite_supafly
    I would to thank you Sharpshooter, ... turmoil involving you or something on your site your sales go up.
    Dolomite
    I would like to add, That this site is NOT owned by Sharp Shooters Supply or Fred Moreo (AKA Sharp Shooter), that this site is owned and maintained by Jim Baker (AKA MR. Furious) of Baker media. I wish to add that They are not related, and did not know each other until after the site was born. Sharp Shooter was picked, just like all the other staff, to be a moderator because of his incite and knowledge.The staff members are picked, and are located from all over United States, and Canada. The staff members are not employees of SSS, or SSS's staff. To the best of my knowledge SSS gives no preferential treatment to paid members over Non-paid members, or even knows the names of who is and who is not. I do know that Sharp Shooter pays advertising fees just like the rest of the advertisers.

    My wish would be, that all of the conspiracy theory nuts would put to rest that SSS and Savage shooters are one in the same. FACT IS, THEY ARE NOT! I can say this with the utmost confidence. I will get off my soap box now that I have addressed this issue that just fires me up to no end.
    Thanks for the info...
    I think there was a lot of confusion about who,when, what, or where.
    Honestly, I had NO idea who owned the site as I don't think it was ever mentioned.

    LeeH
    Proud Member<br />EOD Master Blaster&#39;s

  9. #59
    sliderule
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    A big thank you to Fred for taking the time to share with us actual test data. Information that could have been done from the get go before this all got blown out. But progress was made and knowledge shared for all to take in. It definetely proves that there is more to an easy bolt lift than just a "kit".

    I only wish Smokepole would have put his two cents in.

  10. #60
    jrmy_1
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    The data makes sense, Fred using the "scientific method" helps to conceptualize the process a bit so it can be repeated by others and should obtain essentially the same results with some variation due to induced error.

    The basic friction formula is as follows:

    Fr = ?N

    Where, Fr = force attributed to friction, ? = coefficient of friction and N = the force normal to applied force of objects.

    This equation is a very simple version, but will make the point I&#39;m trying to make.

    The idea is to reduce Fr. There are only two ways to do this. Either reduce the coefficient of friction, which is basically achieved through trying different methods such as that which has been done in this thread or reduce the applied force between the components, which would be done by reducing spring tension, mass if gravity is the driving force, etc.

    Coefficient of friction is a dynamic value that has many inputs such as shape, material of construction, adhesion properties, speed of movement, etc. if you would like to model the value. The faster something moves typically reduces coefficient of friction. One of the items that could&#39;ve been included in Sharp Shooter&#39;s write up would be the speed/rpm with which the torque wrench was rotated as this would have a direct impact on the obtained values.

    Basically, the idea is to find a solution that reduces the coefficient of friction lower than the ball bearing technique. I bet there is already a modeling software developed by some student or engineer out there that you could input the materials and properties and it would spit out the best combination to use for friction reduction.

  11. #61
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    63

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Thanks Sharp Shooter for some Excellent info.

    I own two new cocking indicator actions, I would LOVE to have them T&T by SSS.
    But that is not a option right now, SO what do I do??.
    I have only ONE option right now...I can install a "Kit" and hope I get a "little" less effort on the lift
    and hope to smooth the bolt a "little".
    GUESS WHAT!!..I am ahead of the game!!, if that happens.
    As my Dad was fond of saying.....

    A little bit of SOMETHING
    is a lot better than
    A whole lot of NOTHING

    Just my thoughts...

    Take it for what it&#39;s worth.

    LeeH
    Proud Member<br />EOD Master Blaster&#39;s

  12. #62
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    44

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    A cheap and easy way to reduce the amount of cocking force is to get a longer bolt handle. Note that Fred&#39;s numbers refer to torque, which has units of inches times pounds. A force F, measured in pounds, applied with a lever arm of length L, measured in inches, exerts a torque of T = F x L in-lbs. So for Fred&#39;s stock cocking effort of 20 in-lbs, you would need to apply a force of 20/2.5 = 8 pounds to a 2.5 inch bolt handle (something like the small factory handle), or a force of 20/3 = 6.67 pounds to a 3 inch bolt handle (something like a tactical bolt handle).

    Note that 16.67/2.5 = 6.67, so the 3 inch handle "feels" like a 2.5 inch handle would with 16.67 in-lbs of cocking effort. It&#39;s like you&#39;re over halfway to a T&T job having a cocking effort of 14 in-lbs!

    However, there&#39;s no free lunch in that the amount of work it takes to cock the rifle, which goes as force times distance, remains constant, since your hand has to travel a proportionately longer distance with the longer handle. But I&#39;m betting you notice the force more than the work.

    I don&#39;t know if the bolt handles on the new cocking indicator actions are the same as the old ones (haven&#39;t seen one), but I&#39;m sure someone will fill the need of making aftermarket longer tactical handles if they are different.

    Kevin

  13. #63
    usngunner
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by 82boy

    I would like to add, That this site is NOT owned by Sharp Shooters Supply or Fred Moreo (AKA Sharp Shooter), that this site is owned and maintained by Jim Baker (AKA MR. Furious) of Baker media. I wish to add that They are not related, and did not know each other until after the site was born. Sharp Shooter was picked, just like all the other staff, to be a moderator because of his incite and knowledge.The staff members are picked, and are located from all over United States, and Canada. The staff members are not employees of SSS, or SSS&#39;s staff. To the best of my knowledge SSS gives no preferential treatment to paid members over Non-paid members, or even knows the names of who is and who is not. I do know that Sharp Shooter pays advertising fees just like the rest of the advertisers.

    My wish would be, that all of the conspiracy theory nuts would put to rest that SSS and Savage shooters are one in the same. FACT IS, THEY ARE NOT! I can say this with the utmost confidence. I will get off my soap box now that I have addressed this issue that just fires me up to no end.
    I"ll tell you right now that is crap. Peaches has told me on the phone more than once that if you&#39;re a paid member, they figure you&#39;re serious about your rifle and they will pm or call you back first. Not saying it&#39;s right or wrong, but it is what it is.

  14. #64
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    555

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by usngunner
    Quote Originally Posted by 82boy

    I would like to add, That this site is NOT owned by Sharp Shooters Supply or Fred Moreo (AKA Sharp Shooter), that this site is owned and maintained by Jim Baker (AKA MR. Furious) of Baker media. I wish to add that They are not related, and did not know each other until after the site was born. Sharp Shooter was picked, just like all the other staff, to be a moderator because of his incite and knowledge.The staff members are picked, and are located from all over United States, and Canada. The staff members are not employees of SSS, or SSS&#39;s staff. To the best of my knowledge SSS gives no preferential treatment to paid members over Non-paid members, or even knows the names of who is and who is not. I do know that Sharp Shooter pays advertising fees just like the rest of the advertisers.

    My wish would be, that all of the conspiracy theory nuts would put to rest that SSS and Savage shooters are one in the same. FACT IS, THEY ARE NOT! I can say this with the utmost confidence. I will get off my soap box now that I have addressed this issue that just fires me up to no end.
    I"ll tell you right now that is crap. Peaches has told me on the phone more than once that if you&#39;re a paid member, they figure you&#39;re serious about your rifle and they will pm or call you back first. Not saying it&#39;s right or wrong, but it is what it is.
    There are places who give preference, whether it be veterans through pricing, what they get or how long they have to wait to get it. Or LE at places who give officers things like free coffee or something to eat for free. There are reasons for people giving benefits to ceratin groups, for the cops it is to keep the "stop and rob" safer by always having an endless line of cops showing up for their free cup of coffee.

    Even our Federal Government gives preferences to certain groups.

    I can see where it appears they are connected (I even thought the same thing) but I have been assured by numerous people that they are not since my posting implying they are. Even if they are giving preferences to members here there are plenty of other sites that do. I can&#39;t even think of a site where the advertisers don&#39;t offer some sort of benefit to the members of the sites they advertise on.

    Dolomite


  15. #65
    dbranger94
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I found a place to get some nice small thrust bearings with the races built into the washers. They are at a place called AVID and they sell bearings for RC cars and whatnot. I believe the one we need is the 5x12x4mm and they are only $3. Shipping is cheap too.

    Link: http://www.avidrc.com/product/13/thr...-bearings.html

    But they also have a lot of other small bearings of various types.


  16. #66
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    63

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeH
    Thanks Sharp Shooter for some Excellent info.

    I own two new cocking indicator actions, I would LOVE to have them T&T by SSS.
    But that is not a option right now, SO what do I do??.
    I have only ONE option right now...I can install a "Kit" and hope I get a "little" less effort on the lift
    and hope to smooth the bolt a "little".
    GUESS WHAT!!..I am ahead of the game!!, if that happens.
    As my Dad was fond of saying.....

    A little bit of SOMETHING
    is a lot better than
    A whole lot of NOTHING

    Just my thoughts...

    Take it for what it&#39;s worth.

    LeeH
    UPDATE!!!

    Just got the bearings in and they will NOT work on the "Indicator" type bolts.
    The indicator is just too large to allow drilling out the bearing.
    Looks like the grooved washer from Savage Shooter is the only option.

    Savage Shooter.....You around???

    Will you sell that kit??

    LeeH
    Proud Member<br />EOD Master Blaster&#39;s

  17. #67
    WaltherP99
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by usngunner
    I"ll tell you right now that is crap. Peaches has told me on the phone more than once that if you&#39;re a paid member, they figure you&#39;re serious about your rifle and they will pm or call you back first. Not saying it&#39;s right or wrong, but it is what it is.
    :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

  18. #68
    Super Moderator Blue Avenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minnesota
    Age
    65
    Posts
    2,965

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    cool, at least some one takes me serious! now to convince her phone to! :) :)
    .223 Rem AI, .22-250 AI, .220 Swift AI .243 Win AI, .6mm Rem AI, .257 Rob AI, .25-06 AI, 6.5x300wsm .30-06 AI, .270 STW, 7mm STW, 28 nosler, .416 Taylor

  19. #69
    hotbrass
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Lots of good info.

    Thanks everyone! ;D

  20. #70
    glOckcOma
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Are there any updates to this or any better versions that have been made and where to get em?

    Thanks.

  21. #71
    iamsniper1
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I posted my preference about using a multi bearing kit May 6,2011
    as opposed to the 38 case mod and was instantly shot down by the so called Savage
    Experts.
    Another post concerning the bolt lift mod has arrived on the scene and sure enough
    the "Experts"? have come out from under their rocks with all their scientific data
    as to why a single bearing is so much better than multi bearings.
    Here&#39;s my take on the " BOLT LIFT MOD".
    If one hasn&#39;t tried either mod,just sit back and watch the show,don&#39;t jump in with
    comments of why either mod will not work when you haven&#39;t performed the mod yourself.
    Actually install both mods,one may like one or the other or may not care for any mod at all.
    I&#39;m sure some people who own Savage rifles are contented with the way their rifle performs
    and will leave well enough alone.
    The point here is "to each his/her own" what ever works for one does not necessarily mean it will work for all.
    Most of the people come to this site for information concerning their particular rifle,whether its a fix and or mod,
    they want answers in layman&#39;s terms,not scientific spread sheets as to why the fix or mod will work or not,a simple
    DOs,Don&#39;ts and How-Tos are what these people are looking for,when one throws equations and formulas at them,
    most become disinterested and look elsewhere for an answer they can understand,do the fix or mod and move on .
    Of course this is my opinion,I may be wrong.

  22. #72
    Dirk
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I do not see that way at all. Why on earth would I want to go to the trouble of installing an obviously inferior system with more friction points then the single bearing system which works? Logic dictates to go with the least resistance system and screw the other one! :-\

  23. #73
    r29l20
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Do the bearings roll in the (race)? If they do, I can see how it might reduce friction, but if not, its obvious the single center bearing would have less friction. Just my 2 cents. :)

  24. #74
    gotcha
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Roller bearings are designed to ROLL, not pivot on an axis. A single roller bearing under spring tension might very well gall and fail. Small shavings of metal can usually be found in the inner workings of a bolt assy. due to friction surfaces "bedding in", Thus the necessity of dis- assembling, cleaning and re-lubing a bolt occasionally. Remember the fanatical adherence of roller bearing specs by the people that brought us the Panzer tank?.............. A single bearing that isn&#39;t perfectly round will fail sooner or later. In the mean time it will also produce more drag than it&#39;s perfectly round counter part. The ISSUE is the quality of the bearing & it&#39;s seating surface NOT the comparison of one bearing vs. multiple. I have a single bearing "kit" from Stockade. Until I&#39;ve been able to compare it to a multi bearing set up I don&#39;t feel qualified to make a judgement. Note: Thanks Dolomite for starting this interesting discussion Dale

  25. #75
    thomae
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by dbranger94
    I found a place to get some nice small thrust bearings with the races built into the washers. They are at a place called AVID and they sell bearings for RC cars and whatnot. I believe the one we need is the 5x12x4mm and they are only $3. Shipping is cheap too.
    Link: http://www.avidrc.com/product/13/thr...-bearings.html
    After purchasing just a few of the above mentioned bearings, I found that my hunch was correct and their outside diameter of 12mm is just a touch too big to use in the Stevens/Savage Bolts. Desired bearing outside diameter is between 11.5 and 11.7 mm (approx .454-.455 inches)

    The good news is that their prices and shipping rates are extremely reasonable and they arrived at my home quickly.

    Cheers,
    Thomae

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. My Custom .17 WSM bolt modification pictures
    By ds10speed in forum Picture Post
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-17-2018, 04:13 PM
  2. Bolt Lift - Savage 116 Trophy Hunter with newer (axis) bolt
    By Camar068 in forum Axis Series Rifles
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-02-2016, 08:35 PM
  3. Bolt lift mod
    By Bolt gunner in forum 110-Series Rifles
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2015, 05:37 PM
  4. Savage 11 ( new bolt design ) assembly pictures
    By Procule in forum 110-Series Rifles
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-01-2014, 04:45 PM
  5. MOVED: 45 ACP bolt gun done...with pictures
    By Blue Avenger in forum 110-Series Rifles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-19-2010, 10:35 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •