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Thread: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

  1. #26
    Team Savage pdog06's Avatar
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures


    Dolomite,
    Does adding the spacer push the bolthandle back far enough to cause it to hit the stock or the cutout in the action when you ope/close the bolt? Just tryin to get a mental pic of it in action(so to speak). The other question I have is with the bolthandle hole being shaped so the fits perfectly(and flush) onto the end of the bolt, does the spacer move it back too far to fit as expected?

    I am guessing that you're thinking that the 5 bearings will share the pressure instead of it being loaded on just 1 bearing. SO if the weight/pressure is evenly distributed it should be easier. Seems like a good theory, and definately one worth testing.

    I think most of us understand your real reasoning behind doing this, and appreciate your willingness to try it. I do agree that the other kit seemed like it could be unsafe in some rifles, but this one seems safe enough to me. Basically very similar to a normal lift kit and just dont have to cut the bolt. I would like to see a finished pic of it with the washer installed though, and of course the numbers too.
    ”I have a very strict gun control policy: if there’s a gun around, I want to be in control of it.”
    ~Clint Eastwood

  2. #27
    davemuzz
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I'm no Mech-Eng. (Thank you Lord) ;D just a regular guy that is happy to get up on the green side of the grass everyday.

    However, when I look at the design of the 5 bearing gizmo, my concern is that on the harder kicker guns, how are the bearings going to hold up? Are they going to remain round or will they have any tendency to become out-of-round?

    In addition, the plastic that they sit in....is there a possibility that this could crack? and could this crack go un-noticed to the point where it would work for a certain number of rounds, and then gall and bind up the bolt?

    Hey, for deer hunting it's no big deal. For hog hunting when that big 'ol pig is comin right at ya, and your chambering that second round, it may make a difference.

    Dave

  3. #28
    steveinwv
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    The fact that it works with the new bolts is super. Simple math proves that the bearing kit + the BAS washer = the same pressure on the spring and the same amount of travel. This kit is no more dangerous than the original bolt design. I am a mechanical engineer, for what little it's worth, and it doesn't take a mechanical engineer to do the math.

    The BAS washer by itself.................not good.

    And then again dolomite admitted this quickly.

    I'd still take one for my new FCP-K and gladly pay for it.

    I still say nice work, even if you use it in an older gun in place of the .38spl kit.


  4. #29
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog06
    Dolomite,
    Does adding the spacer push the bolthandle back far enough to cause it to hit the stock or the cutout in the action when you ope/close the bolt? Just tryin to get a mental pic of it in action(so to speak). The other question I have is with the bolthandle hole being shaped so the fits perfectly(and flush) onto the end of the bolt, does the spacer move it back too far to fit as expected?

    I am guessing that you're thinking that the 5 bearings will share the pressure instead of it being loaded on just 1 bearing. SO if the weight/pressure is evenly distributed it should be easier. Seems like a good theory, and definately one worth testing.

    I think most of us understand your real reasoning behind doing this, and appreciate your willingness to try it. I do agree that the other kit seemed like it could be unsafe in some rifles, but this one seems safe enough to me. Basically very similar to a normal lift kit and just dont have to cut the bolt. I would like to see a finished pic of it with the washer installed though, and of course the numbers too.
    I'll try to get some pictures of the bolt installed in the gun when I can, I really need to take it easy today. But here are pictures of the washer installed and tighten on the bolt.

    [img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Firearms%20related/boltpic3.jpg[/img]
    [img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Firearms%20related/boltpic2.jpg[/img]
    [img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Firearms%20related/boltpic1.jpg[/img]

    On my rifle there are no ill effect of the additional .195". It clears the PDS/T stock I have. The spacer is the same diamter as the BAS so the diamter shouldn't be an issue either. The spacer doesn't change the way the bolt handle ataches to the bolt itself, the bolt handle is still in the same position as before.

    As for the longevity of the setup I don't know. I can say that these are ball bearings so if the orginal 38 special ball bearing idea has held up without deforming them I can't see why this wouldn't but who knows, only time will tell. I can see the plastic piece being an issue down the road though because I am unsure how solvents willl affect it or even grease for that matter. To remove the plastic carrier as well as make a similar setup for the cocking indicator bolts something else probably needs to be done. What I was thinking was machine the bottom of the BAS and put a small groove for the bearings to ride in then use the same size groove in a plate that covers the cocking piece. Basically having two grooved surfaces for the bearings to ride in but leave enough clearance so the BAS and cocking sleeve do not touch each other. The pressure of the spring would hold them in place. I think this would work and help out those with the new cocking indicator bolts.

    I am not in this to make money, never was. I am in it to help out Savages as well as myself for the reasons I have mentioned before.
    I do not own a shop or anything other than the tools most of you on this board already have.

    I appreciate everybody for not turning this thread into the shit storm the previous thread was. And yes I admit the previous thread had a version that had issues that could have been bad and that is why the 8 people who got the previous version had certified letters sent to them notifying them as well as a SASE for them to send the part back. That is where the letter Mr Furious posted came from, the request quit using the previous part and return it at no cost to them.

    Dolomite

  5. #30
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    If the powers that be ok it I'll post the info for the bearing.

    They took it down when they posted the letter.

    Dolomite

  6. #31
    cwop
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    the smartest man i ever knew was a electrian with a 3rd grade education. he could figure out anything give him enough time. in the 30s he worked on construction and setting up of power plants. guess who the young engineers went to when they couldnt figure something out. yep leo the electrician. he did every thing from building houses to electronics. when he built a home, in the winter instead of setting around he would build a lot of the house in his garage.

    leo knew about all 480 3ph electical stuff, wild legs in 3ph which i never did even understand. he handled his finances in the same way died a well off old goat. i miss him every day just a fine fine gentleman.

    as i read dolomites theories and the man himself i find someone i admire greatly. we need these kind of folks to learn from. he can take hostile critizsim i know that.

    good going dolomite

    bob

  7. #32
    Dust_Remover
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Tag. Definately interested in trying this out. There are a lot of machine shops in my area, i'm sure I could find a guy to machine a BAS spacer for me, or even trim the BAS for me, I can always order another BAS and have it as a backup just in case I want to revert back to the stock form.

    Anything that'll smooth up my bolt on my 10, it's got several thousand rounds through it now, and it's a lot better than it used to be, but i'd like for it to be super smooth.

    Branden

  8. #33
    82boy
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Just my 2 cents, and a bit of constructive criticism.

    What is accomplished in the 38 case with a bearing is that it has a smaller surface area. Not that the ball bearing has anything to do with friction, but that it places the turning force on a smaller point. You could accomplish the same thing buy making a spacer to fit in the cocking piece and place a pointed surface to contact the BAS. It functions in the same way as when someone places something on a pivot, and takes a steel rod and points it up. The best example I can think of is a wind flag. If you look at wind flags they usually take the contact point and point it up to reduces the surface area. Another example is a shooting rest the feet are pointed to make a smaller surface area, and allow them to turn, it also digs into the concrete do to them being harder, but for this discussion this is a mute point. Another flaw that people do is the drill a divot into the back action screw for the ball bearing to ride in, and they actually increased the surface area, and defeated the purpose.

    I will say that the thrust bearing is a great way to go, (If fact you are somewhat close in design to what SSS has done to for the accu-stock guns. They have used their idea ever since they have come out.) but I see that there could be a flaw in your idea. The point to making a kit such as this is for the newer accu-stock gun with there rear cocking indicator to pass through. Maybe I am wrong but it looks like the hole in the bearing and the washers is too small for the cocking indicator to go through. The only question I have for the spacer is ,with it installed does the BAS partly cover the safety?

    IMO you need one of the newer bolts with the cocking indicator to test your invention. Placing the kit you have in an older style non cocking indicator bolt is just reinventing the wheel, with a higher cost fix than that of the old tried and trued. The more ball bearings equate into more surface area, and increased bolt lift over the single bearing. It does still lower the bolt lift force, and it can be used on the newer guns.

    Again not to flame you, or stir the pot, it is just constructive criticism, if I was looking to do gunsmith work, or invent new parts, I would first go out and spend some money into proper tools to test, and make the parts. To truly tell if your making a difference you need to find better testing methods than a fish scale. If you truly what to know what your accomplishing, you need to be scientific with your research. You need the parts you are building the fix for, and you need a good accurate repeatable test procedures. I would also advise you to contact MR. F before you did anything on this site with giving away of your products.

    And to all the Neigh sayers, that states that the people are holding him back, I offer you this; due to this being presented on this forum, it places legal liability onto the staff, if they say nothing. The problem is not that he is inventing a new product, (we all greatly encourage that.) but it is the way that he has presented these without the proper testing.(this thread is better than the last but still in question) In today money hungry lawyer friendly world people will try to get money out of anyway they can, and if someone would have an accident that was caused with his product, they sure would try to come back on this site. The staff is only policing this up because of the liability issues, and dang it, no one what to see anyone get hurt.

  9. #34
    Team Savage pdog06's Avatar
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Dolomite, thanks for the pics of it. Forget about my questions about the clearance in the stock. I wasnt thinking straight and forgot the bolthandle will still be in its same positioning on the bolt, with the spacer behind it. SO the clearances should be fine, except for maybe the safety as Pat just mentioned.

    Are you gonna compare a normal lift kit(single bearing 38 case type) to this one on different guns to see which has the most effect on bolt lift? Sure you are, and I am curious to read about your results.

    Great info you mention Pat. Thanks for explaining some of the issues for those that dont realize it.
    ”I have a very strict gun control policy: if there’s a gun around, I want to be in control of it.”
    ~Clint Eastwood

  10. #35
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by 82boy
    Just my 2 cents, and a bit of constructive criticism.

    What is accomplished in the 38 case with a bearing is that it has a smaller surface area. Not that the ball bearing has anything to do with friction, but that it places the turning force on a smaller point. You could accomplish the same thing buy making a spacer to fit in the cocking piece and place a pointed surface to contact the BAS. It functions in the same way as when someone places something on a pivot, and takes a steel rod and points it up. The best example I can think of is a wind flag. If you look at wind flags they usually take the contact point and point it up to reduces the surface area. Another example is a shooting rest the feet are pointed to make a smaller surface area, and allow them to turn, it also digs into the concrete do to them being harder, but for this discussion this is a mute point. Another flaw that people do is the drill a divot into the back action screw for the ball bearing to ride in, and they actually increased the surface area, and defeated the purpose.

    I will say that the thrust bearing is a great way to go, (If fact you are somewhat close in design to what SSS has done to for the accu-stock guns. They have used their idea ever since they have come out.) but I see that there could be a flaw in your idea. The point to making a kit such as this is for the newer accu-stock gun with there rear cocking indicator to pass through. Maybe I am wrong but it looks like the hole in the bearing and the washers is too small for the cocking indicator to go through. The only question I have for the spacer is ,with it installed does the BAS partly cover the safety? The spacer does not cause the BAS to cover the safety on a Stevens 200 action and the safety is still working just fine depite the additional .185" added to the length of the BAS. You are correct in that the hole on this is in fact too small, the cocking indicators on new bolts are rounghly .245" and this bearing has only a .125" ID but LeeH is going to try to drill these out to .25". I would have tired but unfortunately I can't because of my health issues right at this moment. We will see how it works out for LeeH. The previous idea I had seemed like it would work with all actions until people brought up valid points and I admitted it, sent out emails, PM's and certified letters acknowledging this. This version WILL NOT work with cocking indicator bolts and I never said that it would in THIS thread. I did in the previous thread but that one is over and done with as far as I am concerned and this is a whole new thread about something different. Either way, live and learn, nothing ventured nothing gained, yada, yada, yada.

    IMO you need one of the newer bolts with the cocking indicator to test your invention. Placing the kit you have in an older style non cocking indicator bolt is just reinventing the wheel, with a higher cost fix than that of the old tried and trued. The more ball bearings equate into more surface area, and increased bolt lift over the single bearing. It does still lower the bolt lift force, and it can be used on the newer guns. Personally, I disagree with this because the bearing in the 38 special kit drags while the bearing here should in fact roll.

    Again not to flame you, or stir the pot, it is just constructive criticism, if I was looking to do gunsmith work I'm not, or invent new parts not planning to do this either, I would first go out and spend some money into proper tools to test, and make the parts. To truly tell if your making a difference you need to find better testing methods than a fish scale Agreed and I am not going to make excuses as to why. If you truly what to know what your accomplishing, you need to be scientific with your research. You need the parts you are building the fix for, and you need a good accurate repeatable test procedures Again I totally agree. I would also advise you to contact MR. F before you did anything on this site with giving away of your products. I have previously given stuff away on this site without issue but evidentally I was trying to "just skirts some of the rules on this website" by offering something for free according to a moderator in the other thread. Because of this I am just not going to give anything away, period end of story. This is the reason I posted where the bearing could be bought so they could if they choose. Unfortunately Mr Furious felt the need to delete it. Not trying to act like I am stomping my feet in a temper tantrum or anything like that but I will not get accused of "just skirts some of the rules on this website" again. That wasn't my intent in the begining and now this is the best way to keep from being accused of it.

    And to all the Neigh sayers, that states that the people are holding him back, I do not believe you were holding me back in any way, I was able to get valuable information before the previous thread took on a whole new vibe with the name calling I offer you this; due to this being presented on this forum, it places legal liability onto the staff, if they say nothing. The problem is not that he is inventing a new product, (we all greatly encourage that.) but it is the way that he has presented these without the proper testing.(this thread is better than the last but still in question)I am just presenting things for people to look over, not advocating anything just presenting ideas In today money hungry lawyer friendly world people will try to get money out of anyway they can, and if someone would have an accident that was caused with his product, they sure would try to come back on this site. The staff is only policing this up because of the liability issues, and dang it, no one what to see anyone get hurt. I absolutely agree, what we do not need is another pro gun media taken away for any reason. Even if you do not agree with those here at least there is a "here" because one day there may not be. And ask any of the testers, including Greg, if safety was not my concern.
    You have always been a corgile, profeesional person when dealing with me and I really appreciate it. This is the kind of discussin we need to move things forward and not dwell on the past.

    Dolomite

  11. #36
    Team Savage pdog06's Avatar
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I am starting to feel the "love" again in this thread.... Thats a good thing

    I think what the mods were meaning is that if you were giving away a proven safe and working product there would not have been a problem. It would be no different than the free giveaway of the piano wire for the 3screw triggers, or the stuff cowboyarcher gives away at times. They are all being done for different reasons but no rules were broken that I can find written. The mods main issue that made this different was the safety factor, and the fact that it was given out for others to test instead of given out as an already tested product. Some people have different ways of expressing what they mean, and some are more harsh than others, but I think they all meant the same basic thing as a whole, and Pat pretty much eluded to it in his last paragraph. Hopefully that can be forgotten and forgiven so we can concentrate on your new kit, which is a safe kit from what can be seen.

    I really hope this thing works for you, and hopefully then maybe a write-up on it can be put in the articles section for everone to read in the future.
    ”I have a very strict gun control policy: if there’s a gun around, I want to be in control of it.”
    ~Clint Eastwood

  12. #37
    82boy
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by pdog06
    I am starting to feel the "love" again in this thread.... Thats a good thing

    I think what the mods were meaning is that if you were giving away a proven safe and working product there would not have been a problem. It would be no different than the free giveaway of the piano wire for the 3screw triggers, or the stuff cowboyarcher gives away at times. They are all being done for different reasons but no rules were broken that I can find written. The mods main issue that made this different was the safety factor, and the fact that it was given out for others to test instead of given out as an already tested product. Some people have different ways of expressing what they mean, and some are more harsh than others, but I think they all meant the same basic thing as a whole, and Pat pretty much eluded to it in his last paragraph. Hopefully that can be forgotten and forgiven so we can concentrate on your new kit, which is a safe kit from what can be seen.

    I really hope this thing works for you, and hopefully then maybe a write-up on it can be put in the articles section for everone to read in the future.
    I could not have saud it better, you hit the nail on the head, big time! Yes, we would love to see a write up,on what you discover.

  13. #38
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I have two of the new actions and I am ordering the bearings as we speak.
    The only problem as I see it, is reaming/drilling the center holes to clear the
    cocking indicator which is a extension of the firing pin.
    No problem doing that on this end.

    FINALLY WE HAVE A CHOICE!!!!!!


    Way to go Dolomite
    Proud Member<br />EOD Master Blaster&#39;s

  14. #39
    P057
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    8)

  15. #40
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Dolomite I would be interested in buying two of the spacers and thanks for all the effort you have put into this ::)

  16. #41
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    If this works, maybe it will cut my wait times for SSS to T&T my actions :).

  17. #42
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    1. I am not selling the spacers. As far as giving them away as I had planned, I will not do that either for fear of someone installing them incorrectly and injuring themselves with something I provided.

    2. This in no way replaces anything related to a T&T. A T&T is a well thought out procedure that requires more than just a few drop in parts to work and this in no way is meant to replace it.


    The thickness you need is in the pictures and the OD is .850" to match the OD of the BAS for a finished look. The through hole is .500". Almost any shop should be able to duplicate it for a reasonable amount of money. The other option is to have your BAS reduced the same amount as the spacer. Either way you will need to free up the space taken up by the bearing. I have provided all the information needed to duplicate what I have done, but with that you are on your own.

    I will drop any more mention of the previous thread or the goings on in it. Everything has been done to make things right so there is no reason to bring it up anymore.

    Dolomite


  18. #43
    Todd33
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I&#39;m new to Savages so just to clarify things for me. I&#39;ve noticed that my bolt feels really "Tight" when I start to lift it to chamber a round. Just in the first quarter of upward movement. Is this what the lift kit helps eliminate. Not tryin to hijack the thread just tryin to help understand what the issue is.

  19. #44
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeH
    I have two of the new actions and I am ordering the bearings as we speak.
    The only problem as I see it, is reaming/drilling the center holes to clear the
    cocking indicator which is a extension of the firing pin.
    No problem doing that on this end.

    FINALLY WE HAVE A CHOICE!!!!!!


    Way to go Dolomite
    The bearing&#39;s were shipped today, as soon as I can get them reamed and the spacer made I WILL
    post a Range report even though the weather here has been REALLY nasty.
    Rain, Shine, or a Stinkin Blizzard, I will make it to the Range.
    I am trying to find a trigger pull Gage so I can give accurate bolt lift reading&#39;s.


    Proud Member<br />EOD Master Blaster&#39;s

  20. #45
    1Shot
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    ..Gordon, you thought of my idea..lol..Only I was looking for a needle bearing... ...I have a inlaw that is in the bearing business I just haven&#39;t had time to pick his brain..lol..

  21. #46
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    WOW, cool I was searching around for bearings with races and happened to find these. Thought I would buy them to see if they would work.

    Only time will tell if they are any better than anything previously out there.


    And hi-teck:
    I never said anything about a fish scale in this thread nor did I make any claims other than it seemed to work on my rifle. If you want data feel free to test away and post your results, I for one would like to see it. I only posted the info for people to make their own decisions. I made no promises that anyone would get all the riches in the world or to be surrounded by beautiful women if they installed these. ;D

    As far as the controversial thread you have been following this thread has nothing to do with the previous one and this one has only been going on a little over a day so far. The previous thread has nothing to do with this one and the previous thread is over and done with, locked and all of the 8 testers have been notified of the problems that came to light. Again, that was a seperate idea and not this one. People are having a hard time forgetting and seem to want to compare the two. There is no comaprison between this one and the previous one. Also, unless you are a moderator or one of the 8 testers (you were not) you never even saw the part from the previous thread.

    Dolomite

  22. #47
    Dust_Remover
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    dolomite, I just Pm&#39;d you however i&#39;m not sure if I did it right. I&#39;ve never PM&#39;s on this site, so what happened after I hit send threw me off. PM me if you didn&#39;t get it please.

    Branden

  23. #48
    Todd33
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    jeeez... :-X

  24. #49
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    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I promised myself I would not interfere anymore in these threds that seemed to have everybody worked up, but now I am going to intervene. It doesn&#39;t bother me that you want to tinker and make the world better, however your methods are what got me upset. I apologize for coming off unprofessional, but maybe the following will cast some light where I come from.
    Your first idea was very questionable from a safety standpoint, and I am glad that you 86&#39;d it. It raised more questions than answers. Your second idea is more favorable, but it is hardly fresh, as I devised the same thing as soon as the new cocking indicator models came out on the American Classics 2 years ago.

    I never bothered posting a picture, frankly because not many were out yet and there was no immediate need. This version uses 11- 3/32" ball bearings in a custom made race.

    You have created quite a stir amongst those who want to learn more about this and others who question what your role is. Your "testers" have no established protocol or scope of parameters to lend any credibility to what&#39;s going on. It&#39;s like the blind leading the blind. Like anything scientific, there are proper and accepted ways to experiment and collect data. I can see where you are lacking in this department and I have decided before this thing gets ugly, I will help you out.
    In grade school we had science fairs that were based on experiments of the student&#39;s choice, but the format was always the same.This is how is was laid out:

    1. OBJECTIVE: decribe what you are attempting to acheive.
    2. HYPOTHESIS: decribe what you think will happen with limited observation.
    3. METHODS: describe your methods for testing and the equipment you used.
    4. RESULTS: report what actually happened supported with data.
    5. SUMMARY: summarize the situation explaining why, or why not, the results were different than what was hypothesised.

    Over the years I have gathered more than enough data for this, so I will lead by example.

    [color=navy]1. OBJECTIVE: to establish a way to reduce the cocking effort required to cycle/cock a Savage rifle by reducing friction.

    HYPOTHESIS: by reducing the friction on the bolt assembly screw where it contacts the cocking sleeve on the periphery can reduce the amount of efforts needed to cock and close the bolt.

    METHODS: I will use ball bearings as a means of friction reduction and will collect data using torque values gathered with a Sturtevant Richmont inch/lb beam style torque wrench, model M 50-1. To eliminate as much human error as possible, I will chuck the action in a lathe chuck and support the torque wrench with a solid support to get consistant reading.All tests will use a bolt assembly screw shortened the same amount of what the bearing will take up.
    [img width=600 height=450]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/sharp-shooter/torktest.jpg[/img]
    RESULTS: The data collected here was derived from 36 different actions representing a cross section obtained from specimens manufactured from approximately 1997 to 2008. These numbers represent the average of operations.

    COCKING EFFORT: 22.30 in/lbs.
    CLOSING EFFORT: 13.5 in/lbs.
    OPENING EFFORT(already cocked): 17.9 in/lbs.
    notes: The hardest to cycle measured in @30 in/lbs, the esiest @ 18 in/lbs. I consider these to be the extreme, with most being in the 20 in/lbs range.
    The following data was collected from 1 speciman using the 2 types of bearings to reduce friction.

    Efforts involved in cycling operation
    Observations made on a Savage model 116 serial# G893xxx
    1.operation. 2.before mod(stock). 3.w/single centered ball bearing. 4.w/ thrust bearing. 5.Trued&timed w/no mod. 6.Trued&timed w/thrust bearing. 7.Trued &timed w/single centered ball bearing.


    1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
    cocking effort 20 in/lbs. 18 19 14 13 12
    closing effort 16 14 15 10 8 8
    re-open effort 16 14 15 12 10 9

    SUMMARY: These tests conclude that a single centered ball bearing reduces more friction that multiple ball thrust bearing. Other factors besides friction affect the efforts of cycling due to the variant geometry of the various components of the fire control system. This test does not address the several other points of friction that also contribute to cycling efforts. The trued & timed action was included in this test to demonstrate the the consistancy of what a single centered ball would reduce in friction only. It appears through this test and many others that I have checked to reduce all the cycling efforts only by 2 in/lbs.
    This data was collected long before I publicly shared the idea of the ".38 case and ball bearing tip". Before that, I made the first ones turning a steel "case" and drilled it for a ball bearing. Although it was more precise, it did not work any better than an old .357 case cut down and a ball bearing expoxied in the primer pocket. It was alot less work, not to mention cheap. As far as shortening the bolt assembly screw, it is less work than fabricating a spacer of specific size, although the spacer will work.
    These are my findings; like it or not, you don&#39;t have to take my word for it, so feel free to do what ever you want. It took quite some time for me to dig out all my notes and compile this, so I hope you appreciate it.
    "As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."

  25. #50
    possum1
    Guest

    Re: Bolt lift kit...this time with pictures

    I really appreciate the post sharpshooter. You have answered a question I have been pondering since I joined this forum. Some of us dumb old country boys have to have the meat laid out in front of us " got something to do with being from Missouri ". One thing for sure you have sold me on your T&T service. I really do appreciate you posting the number&#39;s, that is like putting the icing on the cake

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