Reply With QuoteIf your rifle is accurate now, just stick your money into the best optics you can afford. Then practice. The sky is the limit on what you can do to your rifle. The question is do you "need" to or "want" to change thing ?
Im trying to put together a long range build on a bit of a budget.
I have a left handed ss weather warrior .308 accutrigger accustock.
I would like to use the rifle to its full potential. With practice I would like to make decent shots on paper at 1000 yards as my goal. I imagine the stock rifle is probably capable of that already.
Heres my list plan so far:
Scope- Vortex viper PST MOA FFP
Stock- macmillan A5
Vortex bubble level
Other than that what other options are there or thoughts in general. Im looking for opinions about setup or aftermarket parts or fine tuning... Anything that will help make this a tack driver.
While reading I always find things I would never have thought of like lapping scope rings or how pressure from the rings effects the scope. Hight of scope length of stock and such. I just want to make sure I haven't overlooked anything critical before I start this project.
Also im told savages dont really benefit from blueprinting and that sort of fine tuning is that correct or are there things that can be improved upon as far as the action trigger group and possibly the barrel goes ?
Thanks !
If your rifle is accurate now, just stick your money into the best optics you can afford. Then practice. The sky is the limit on what you can do to your rifle. The question is do you "need" to or "want" to change thing ?
just remember to keep both eyes open so you can watch the bubble level.
very important.
Lmao yes...Originally Posted by yobuck
Bubble level might be a bit much but I figured it would be interesting to try one and see if it has any value.
They help if you have a problem with canting the rifle.
BlackCat
you likely can get there already.
your relatively short light barrel will not be quite as good as it could be. a fatter barrel will soak heat up and hold recoil down. but just go slow between shots. The advice on optics is good. I need at least 14 or so power to be comfy at longer distance. I've seen guys do it with 10x but I like 20 or so. as you upgrade the optics you may have to go to a higher comb or your chosen new stock, cheek weld is important when you are trying to hit way out there. First you should find a load/loading that has a good flying bullet and start practicing. you need to be under a moa. I also like a brake. you'll learn more from seeing the miss that you will from hearing the hit.
Oh, and it's addicting.
Idahoorion
Hehe yes it is addicting. I dont seem to have any natural talent and a few walls in my way but I have 1000 yard range right out my back door and I reload for my revolvers. Im looking at a 4x16x50 scope the power your referring to is that the x50 ? If im the primary shooter of this rifle is there any benefit to getting an adjustable cheek pad like the option on the A5 ?
1000 yds is a lofty goal for that rifle due to the caliber. Enjoy everything you can do with it. Then make that a 260 Remington with a heavy bullet throat and go shoot 1000.
That will be a great rig once you get it up and running. the x50 refers to the objective diameter of the bell of the scope. The 4-16 tells you it is variable power from 4 to 16 power. A lot of the upper class scopes have a 50mm + objective so you have to have higher rings/base combo to get it up away from the barrel. Therefore, the cheek rest will go up as well for proper sight through the scope and proper cheek weld. the adjustable cheekrest on the A5 is designed for this and will work fantastically.
So objective diameter, ring height, base, and barrel diameter all play a factor, then stock adjustability finishes it off. I shoot with a Vortex Razor and it is 50mm, but I am still able to get away with Seekins Precision "low" rings with enough bell/barrel clearance.
Oh, and I'd get at least a 20MOA base, depending on the adjustability of your scope, maybe 30.
I also like 20+ power, like the 6-24x50 FFP PST, but you'llo be surprised to see how much you can see even on low powers if you have good glass. For instanceA friend has an IOR Valdada scope that has excellent glass and even on 6 power we can make out more detail in distant objects than a cheaper scope on 14x. All my opinion of course, but you have a good plan together.
This is perfect exactly the sort of thing I was wondering !
I could go with a 20+ power like the 6-24x50 PST is there any downside to going with the higher power ?
How does one determine the adjustability of a particular scope and how much elevation is needed to reach 1000 yards ?
Do you know of any good 20 MOA two piece bases or better with a single piece ? And do you find the x50 objective sitting low on your rifle interferes with the receiver in any way ?
Thanks again !
I like 1 piece bases. Your scope will be relatively light weight so I personally would go with an EGW HD Picatinny rail for your particular rifle. The Razor is heavy so I went with a Warne steel rail.
The scope manufacturer will tell you how much elevation adjustment the scope will have. You can do your calculations from there.
According to Vortex's website http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...1-moa-reticle# the PST has 65MOA elevation. When you zero with a standard base, you will be close to the middle of that range + or - a few moa. Therefore, you're left with ~32 moa for dialing distance. The bigger the tube the more internal adjustment the scope will have, normally.
plugging Federal Gold Medal Match 168g ammunition ballistics http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...le.aspx?id=150 into JBM Ballistics ballistic calculator with altitude of 3k' and a 100yd zero yeilds 37.3 moa to get to 1k. At sea level it's 40.1. A flat base can't get you there with this ammo with adjustment only unless you zero further out. With a 200 yd zero @ 3k elevation it's 35.3 sea level it's 38.1 to get to 1k, etc. You'll be adjusting then holding on your reticle for the extra. The good news is the bullet is still supersonic @1k. Bullets do funky stuff when they fall subsonic.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
So, if you have a 20moa base to begin with, you're starting with roughly 50-52moa of adjustment so you'll be able to get to 1k with this ammo using just turret adjustment no matter the elevation you're shooting at. The negative is at your zero you're not looking directly through the center of the scope, but through the upper portion of it. Some say this isn't as precise but I don't think you'll notice anything negative...
Another scope I really find nice is the Bushnell HDMR with the H59 reticle. It has locking turrets, is FFP and is a smaller package on top of the rifle at ~2" shorter than the PST. It only comes in mil/mil so if you're not real familiar with either MOA or MIL system it's not a problem. The negative is it weighs more and it and the rings are more expensive.
As for the 50mm objective, the bell/barrel clearance isn't the only thing to worry about. the bolt knob has a chance at hitting the eyepiece end of your scope also. Mine clears, so once you figure out your ring height (search for how to do the math on that) I think you'll be ok on that end also.
Anyway, enough rambling. Performance out to 1k is dependent on several factors like elevation and actual ammunition used, etc. but that's a basic way to do some rough estimating. If you have a question, think of the question you'd like to know the answer to, then search the internet for it. I learned this stuff with the help of Google. :) Good luck and have fun!
Blackcat,
Check your pm.
Your Handloads will be a big factor In accuracy at that range. As for minor tweaks it is possi le to bed the accustock with some prep work. Also what are you shooting off? A quality rest and rear bag is going to be alot better than an ebay bipod.
I have some good heavy bags and a shooting rest. I do have to come up with a more stable shooting bench.
Thanks for all the info good! Its stuff I was having trouble finding and is helping a lot.
I just got home with the new rifle I went with the Vortex PST 6-24x50 IR FFP MOA its is an amazing scope! I cant wait to try it out.
The first thing I noticed that never would have occurred to me was like you mentioned the bolt just about hits the scope. Not quite but its in about quarter inch or so id say. Makes me a little nervous. They mounted it for me at the shop. The rings are weaver skeleton mount low profile. And the base is a 20 MOA weaver rail. Now im just reading about break in procedures and trying to figure out which is best.
Im hoping I can put a few rounds through it before I have to run to town to get any materials I may not have for breaking it in. Like copper solvent. Thanks for all the help !
Nice rig! pics?
First 9 rounds through it. I cleaned lubed and inspected the rifle first. Then did a little shooting. Heres my first impressions. It feels the way I imagined it would a little less recoil and noise than 30.06s I've fired but very similar. I have used hinged floor plate and detachable box. This hinged floor plate has got to go! I find them to be incredibly awkward to load and this one is the most awkward yet lol. I may use it for a while like that just for the experience. And as I expected I still cant hit the broad side of a barn. I suspect it may have to do with the 20 MOA base I havent been able to find much info on how the 20 MOA cant effects close range shooting. My target was at 100 yards and I made a nice crater in the ground directly in front of it. Otherwise its a sweet setup and is performing exactly the way I had hoped. Ill post some pictures soon!
the 20 min base wont be any different than any other base when sighted in at 100 yds.
the difference is it will put your scopes elevation closer to the bottom of its adjustment range.
that allows for more adjustment on the up side which is needed for longer shots.
if you dont have a zero stop feature on the scope which can be adjusted to mark your 100 yd zero
you can just count the number of clicks needed to bottom out the scope after you zero it.
then come back up that amount for your zero. best to mark it down for future refference if you lose
the zero when fooling around with the dial. its not uncommon for guys to be a full turn off zero and not realize it.
Thanks that makes sense ill try that tonight should help.
You have a good scope, use it. Line your scope up with where your impact is, measure how many moa ( hash marks )to your bullseye, dial it in on you should be on target. Get on the JBM ballistics website provided to you earlier and print out a range card. Start shooting out farther than a hundred as soon as you get zeroed. I believe you have to push past your comfort zone to grow. Remember to use your reticle to adjust your dope on misses. Shoot , shoot then shoot some more. Then come back for more info.
It's a little late, but just for your knowledge, generally the higher the power, the less vertical travel a scope will have. The 4-16 PST has 86 MOA while the 6-24 has 65 MOA.
Mind you that your zero will be somewhere in the middle. I run a SWFA 12x42 SS. It has 30mils of adjustment and I run it on top of an EGW 20MOA Rail.
Running a 308 in my Custom Axis.
With the mil-quad reticle it's very easy to calculate holdovers.
Ticks are half mil markings and the diamonds are full mil.
Here's the rig
Not sure I follow how your reply addresses my comment? You can't make a generalization across brands either. The 3-15 SS I just got has 36 mil of elevation. It blows the PST away.Mind you that your zero will be somewhere in the middle. I run a SWFA 12x42 SS. It has 30mils of adjustment and I run it on top of an EGW 20MOA Rail.
Running a 308 in my Custom Axis.
With the mil-quad reticle it's very easy to calculate holdovers.
Ticks are half mil markings and the diamonds are full mil.
Here's the rig
Variable vs fixed are also completely different animals.
Example: to get a round on target at 890yds I need to add 8.5mils on the scope. Normally I'll adjust .5mils and hold 8 mils on the reticle. So even if you were at the extreme end of adjustment on the scope, you still have an additional 10 mils on the reticle or you can use in order to make a minimal adjustment.
I just feel like the set up with a SWFA gives you more options than you get from other optics unless you're dropping $$$$ on an optic.
Last edited by LoneWolf; 12-18-2013 at 09:02 AM.
Here's a prime example of what can be done with a plain-Jane 110. This is a lefty too.
Left handed 110
CBI 26" 1 in 10" SS barrel
Choate tactical stock
4.5x30 Bushnell 6500 Tactical
Burris Signature Zee rings 20 MOA
EGW base 20 MOA
20 MOA base as mentioned just moves your reticle down in the range of adjustment so that you have more for LR vertical adjustment. For example my NF on a zero MOA base tops out at 52 MOA vertical on my rifle. I have another 10 MOA in the reticle for a total of about 62 MOA. With a 20 MOA base, I will have 82 total vertical and 72 in the scope.
What this does affect is your zero. If at 100 yards and zeroed with zero MOA base you need to adjust down 20 MOA with a 20 MOA base installed. My thought for LR work is that might simply rezero your rifle at 200 or 300 yards instead of 100.
Bubble- I am not sure if you are kidding or not on this subject but for LR range work I am not sure how you plan to shoot precision without an anti-cant device. When compensating for 600" of drop it does not take much cant on the rifle to be off on horizontal/windage.
For LR precision work set up and accuracy are the name of the game. Repeatable accuracy is the goal. Shooter to scope alignment is commonly an issue where the cheek rest is too low or below the line of sight. This usually created vertical stringing of bullets on the target. Windage stringing is commonly canting and head tilting.
If you are planning to shoot in mountain terrain, that is what I do, then you have a lot more things to consider. Right now I will assume you will shoot a range with minimal atmospheric condition changes and will be shooting from a bench vs prone. Try and use bags vs a sled. Sleds are great for accuracy but teach you little about hold, breath, and trigger control. Also, sleds increase velocity and if you go to a bag it is not uncommon to see bullet drop issues. I have watched chrono speeds vary by as much as 100 fps from a sled to a light shoulder hold. That is really bad for LR precision shooting.
Last edited by Brent; 12-18-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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