Reply With QuoteOutlaw, that thing really gets them cooking with the 100gr. NBT's. I have been enjoying my new 114 Classic 25-06 and worked up an accurate load with 75gr. V-max that does wonders on the pigeons. May need to do one in AI someday. TB
I found some perty good loads too
Shilen #8 contour fitted without the nut; 9 twist barrel crowned at 30".
For the 115gr nosler bal-tip bullets I went ahead and tried some rel25 powder with fed215 mag primers.
The best group was shot at 61.5gr of powder giving me a 1.5" group at 200yds shooting over a spring fed creek and 85 degree temps with about 60 percent humidity (high for this area).
First shot. 3454fps
second shot. 3478fps
third shot. 3466fps
Primers are still round with no extractor marks and Im confident I could go another full grain of powder behind this bullet.
For the 100gr nosler bal-tip bullets I was shooting rel 22 with fed 210M primers. As always, my best accuracy was right close to max pressures. My group was 1.25" at 200yds shooting over the same spring fed creek.
Velocity was impressive but primers were still round with no extractor marks. I am confident that another half grain would start showing excessive pressures.
First shot 3885fps
Second shot 3862fps
third shot 3904fps
I had fun though, I dont get a chance to shoot very often anymore.
My buddies newly bedded 2506 was getting decent accuracy with rel22 and the 110gr accubonds (isnt that what the white tipped bullets are?). He's running a 28" 10 twist McGowen on one of my old 110 actions I sold him.
an average velocity for his load (55.6gr rel 22) was 3467fps. He's only running mild load in my opinion, absolutely no signs of excessive pressures.
Well, now I gotta start loading ammo again :'(
Outlaw, that thing really gets them cooking with the 100gr. NBT's. I have been enjoying my new 114 Classic 25-06 and worked up an accurate load with 75gr. V-max that does wonders on the pigeons. May need to do one in AI someday. TB
Wow those things sure are smoking. My buddies 257 weatherby does not shoot nearly that fast at all. How much RL-22 with the 100 grainers?
Forgot to include that info on the 100gr'ners
62.0gr of reloder 22. Im perty sure its about topped out though, no pressure signs but I just had that gut feeling I better not push it much harder. I think I'll drop it back to 61.5gr just cause Im sceared of it at that velocity (shot nice though). 61.5 gr of reloder 22 averaged 3830fps. Thats about like shooting the 22-250 with 50gr bullets? ;D
Ya that should be a good prairie dog round! I wonder how fast you could shoot the 85 grain noslers at? I really dont think I could get more than 3700 fps out of my 26" 1-10 twist shilen. Maybe I will have to try that load, my brass doesn't last long anyways.
Thad,
I have heard you say before that you use a Lee collet die for your AI. How often do you have to FL resize or use a body die to bump the shoulder back.
Thanks
Brent
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day- Harry Truman
I use lee collet dies for my 223AI and 22-250AI but Ive got redding competition (280AI)dies for my 2506AI. I have used the lee dies for several years before getting the competition dies though but never had to use the bump die because my AI cartridges never seem to stretch. Never had a 2506AI for very long before getting redding dies either.Originally Posted by BrentWin
I would work up to that load if I was you.
25-06 has always been overated if you ask me. after reading this thread tho, i have some serious dought. i still prefer the higher bc's of a .243 with 85-100gr. bullets, but the velocities and groups you posted you have me thinking. i don't want to get into a pissin' match hear, but with that kind of accomplishment why not step it up to a bullet that has better offerings like a 6.5 cal. anyways best of luck to you, and i myseld am considering somehthingsimular, but may jst stick to a .270 and .243 for light work. anyways, best of luck to ya.
Well I think if you have a 243 and a 270 you dont really need a 25-06. I do think you could get rid of the 243, 270 and the 25-06 will do what both of those guns can. There is just something special about 100 grain bullets going above 3400 fps, it really seems to destroy things. Also if you want to literally explode coyotes load up some 85 grain nosler's and you will be amazed. Now I have coyotes killed with all sorts of guns; 300 RUM, 338 winmag, 300 winmag, 7mm WSM, 243, 204, 22-250... etc etc. Some how that 25-06 just seems to tear shit up. It doesn't sound like much on paper but it will appear you shot it with some sort of cannon. It may not have the best bullet selection but how many different bullets do you actually shoot in your gun? If you like to destroy stuff at high velocity this is a good round. Works great on deer too 600+ yards no problem. I also have a custom 300 RUM, but both guns have their place.
Hope you're not squeemish, this is what an 85gr nosler does above 3600 fps, actually I am not going to post it, if you want to see it though let me know.
For the 100gr nosler bal-tip bullets I was shooting rel 22 with fed 210M primers.
Heres my question, where are you finding the Fed 210M primers?
The 25-06 is really humming along there isn't it?
Your post duplicates exactly what I woulda said. Ive only shot one coyote with the 85gr bullets and it was messy enough I didnt even try it again. PDs and the 85gr bullet are really cool, most just vaporize while some it vaporizes everything but the skin and the skin flying through the air reminds me of a pizza crust being thrown into the air.Well I think if you have a 243 and a 270 you dont really need a 25-06. I do think you could get rid of the 243, 270 and the 25-06 will do what both of those guns can. There is just something special about 100 grain bullets going above 3400 fps, it really seems to destroy things. Also if you want to literally explode coyotes load up some 85 grain nosler's and you will be amazed. Now I have coyotes killed with all sorts of guns; 300 RUM, 338 winmag, 300 winmag, 7mm WSM, 243, 204, 22-250... etc etc. Some how that 25-06 just seems to tear crap up. It doesn't sound like much on paper but it will appear you shot it with some sort of cannon. It may not have the best bullet selection but how many different bullets do you actually shoot in your gun? If you like to destroy stuff at high velocity this is a good round. Works great on deer too 600+ yards no problem. I also have a custom 300 RUM, but both guns have their place.
Hope you're not squeemish, this is what an 85gr nosler does above 3600 fps, actually I am not going to post it, if you want to see it though let me know.
I prefer the 100's though, they hold together mucho better and velocities "for me" arent much different between them.
My buddy was a 270 fan until I let him use my 2506 a couple times. Ive had 6mm cartridges several times (including a 6mmx284) and they cant do what the 2506 can(im talking "real world" performance). The bullet selection for the 270 isnt any better than the 2506 either. I have; on the other hand, been thinking about a 6.5-06AI just for tickles.
Ive got friends in high places. ;D
ii can only imagine what a 90 or 100 grain bullet will do in a 270wsm. i'm shooting 140's at 3250fps. those slightly shorter and fatter bullets should blow up better than those outta a 25-06 and i bet i can push 'em at least 3600fps. they're all good man. i jst don't really like long actions and i've always jst thought of the 25 cals. being odd ball, jsk like 270. i actually like a 270 tho. it's a great compromise between 6.5 and .284 cals. i'm shooting 85 grainers outta my 6x47l at around 3350fps, that's plenty fast enough for deer and coyotes. if i go down to varmint weights in the 70 gr. range then i would be hesitant to try my luck on deer, but that would make it 1 hellacious varmints round.
i'm not trying to start a pissing match here, i'm jst simply stating my opinion. see thing is, i jst really hate this one guy i know who brags on his 25-06 way too much. it's all rusted up and worn out and he cant shoot it worth a crap. he also states that with 100 zero he only drops 1.5" at 300yrds. w/ remington soft points. it's a great round, but it's not magical or anything. i guess we will all jst have to shoot whatever makes us happy. ;D
Well I think if you have a 243 and a 270 you dont really need a 25-06. I do think you could get rid of the 243, 270 and the 25-06 will do what both of those guns can.
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jst thought i would add that you are mistaken. i would never shoot at anything larger than a mule deer with anything less than at least a 270. especially at longer distances.
jst thought i would add that you are mistaken. i would never shoot at anything larger than a mule deer with anything less than at least a 270. especially at longer distances.
[/quote]
I am not mistaken, that is only a matter of your opinion. Animals have not really became much tougher than they were 50-100 years ago. Somewhere along the line people seem to think you need huge magnum calibers to take down these bullet proof animals. Its all about shot placement and being comfortable with what you shoot, practice makes perfect. My Grandpa laughs at me everytime I reload, claiming back in his day all people ever used was .22 Long rifles to kill deer and elk. Look at it this way 22 caliber is .224" in diameter, now look at a 30 cal gun .308" diameter. That is a difference of .084", can you honestly say an animal is going to notice the difference of .084"? 257 to 270 is less than .020" no animal will know the difference, its all in your head and everyone else's. I could understand it if you went from something 1/4" in diameter to a 1" bullet that is a big difference, but not this little differences that you can barely see with your eye. Anything with momentum and penetration will kill if placed in the right spot. I am not saying you should use a 22 caliber for everything but the difference between 25-06 and 270 in the real world is not even noticeable.
that's what i was gonna say. the difference in .243 and .25 is only .007"! ballistically a 6mm cal is better than 25 cal. given your shooting same type and same weight bullets and at the same velocity. i cant' say it enough when i talk to people and they still don't believe me. if i tell them my 243 is better the will still favor their 25-06 over it and look at me like i'm crazy. even if my .243 is shooting the same 100gr. at the same speeds as their 25-06. the difference in trajectory will only be about 2" flatter at 500yrds. well, the heck with those idiots for being ignorant. if i have a 243ai and you have your 25-06 and we both shoot 100gr. bullets at 3,300 fps. mine will be better theorically, but will it shoot better? maybe, maybe not. did i spend more $$$ on my rifle or did you on yours? if were hunting together and i don't see anything, but you happen to shoot a deer, does tht make you a better hunter? man i've heard everything you jst typed so many times before that it sometimes makes me sick. seems like we are both good knowledgable people and i'm not going to go back and forth on this like a bunch of kids. as far as i'm concerned enoughs been said and their is no need to continue. who cares if my 270wsm is better than your 25-06, i certainly could care less. ;D
i like to go hunting and i own enough guns to were i have a decent selection to choose from and i'm sure you do to. so jst be happy with what you do and what you got and go enjoy yourself. it doesn't matter who has a bigger gun, jst use it.....and if walmart doesn't get some shells in anytime soon i'm gonna shoot deer with my .22!!!
"Look at it this way 22 caliber is .224" in diameter, now look at a 30 cal gun .308" diameter. That is a difference of .084", can you honestly say an animal is going to notice the difference of .084"?"
real life yes there is a difference and if bullets mushroom out to twice they're size than it makes a bigger difference. take a 308 and a 22, then shoot them at the same speed which one will cause more damage? if it is even possible to make the 2 the same weight i would choose .308. every time. for the simple fact that it causes more trauma and the animal will bleed out faster. i've seen it, it's true and there is a difference. you take your 22 and i'll take my 308 w/ same weight bullets and speed. my deer may run 20 while yours 50. yours may drop and mine might run, even if i got shot in the pumper and you got a double lung. and if you still don't believe me then let me ask you this. if you had a choice to be shot with a 22 cal. or a 44 cal. or even a .308 for the sake of argument, which would you rather take a hit from? to be fair about it lets say they're both the same weight and traveling at the same speed. you take your pick on weight and speed and jst to top things off lets say these bullets don't expand any at all, let's jst say they are fmj's. i'm curious to hear your answer, but at this point i don't really care what it is.
okay now i'm done.
Funkydiscobeaver; is that you? ::)
LMAO... Ive killed more deer in two years doing crop damage controle work than youve killed your whole life.
You wouldnt kill anything lager than deer with your 270? Why? is it inferior? I kill buffalo with my 2506 and the lights go right out.
Tell you what, you go start a thread about your 270 and I'll be an @$$ ( like yourself) and come over and rain on your parade. Your talking about standard cartridges in a wildcat reloading section.
Just to set the record strait
Here is your 243AI (that you suggested would compete with the 2506) with a 100gr bullet at 3300fps. (I dont think you can get it that fast but I did it anyhow)
[img width=600 height=364]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/scan0001.gif[/img]
Here is my 2506 (plain jane) with the 100gr bullets at 3400fps ( thats how fast I run them)
[img width=600 height=337]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/scan0002-1.gif[/img]
Here is "my" 2506AI with the 100gr bullets running 3850fps (this is my recent velocity I was getting with my 2506AI)
[img width=600 height=329]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/scan0003-1.gif[/img]
Here is your 270wsm with 100gr bullets at your suggested velocity of 3600fps.
[img width=600 height=345]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/scan0005.jpg[/img]
my printer might be running out of ink but your balistic calculator isnt working right either
Looks to me as though the plane jane 2506 actually beat out the 243AI and my 2506AI beats your 270wsm out by a large margin.
These calculations are based on "published BCs" and not calculated BCs based on velocity. As we all know, the higher the velocity, the higher the BCs.
Just for another record...lol
Many people here may not know that velocity DOES effect balistic coeficients.
For an example, when I was running my modified 224clark (6mm rem necked down to 224 cal and shoulders blown out to 30 degrees) the listed BC for the 80gr SMK were .420 but at a velocity of 3700fps, the "calculated" BCs went up to .600.
I calculated the BCs by taking velocity measurements at 100-200-300yds and matched them up with my balistic calculator until I got the "calculated" BCs
Now an 80gr SMK running 3700fps has a trajectory that looks like this.
[img width=600 height=340]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/scan0006.jpg[/img]
As the BCs go up, the energy also goes up and you would be very impressed to see just how fast deer drop when hit with this setup.
Now, ya'll know why Im chasing velocity as opposed to BCs. A high BC bullet being pushed really hard has very impressive trajectory. A high BC bullet being pushed along at a slow pace is just another marble in the marble bag to me.
your full of bull. if a 25-06ai can run a 100 gr. at 3850, then a 270wsm can certainly do the same or better and if it can't than i am certainly the next one in line to buy a 25-06, and i guarantee you it will be the cheapest pile i can find, cuz that is what i think they are worth. when shooting those lighter bullets the .25 cal will always have the advantage over a 270 and i give you that, but if you do not beleive a 243ai can acheive a velocity of 3300fps w/ a 100gr. bullet than i encorage you to actually go and find out for yourself, by spending at least a couple hundred dollars. if a hot 243 load can push them at 3100fps than why cant the ai version be able to do at least 200fps more? after all your 25-06ai is pushing them 400fps more than usual and lights out on baffalo with a 25-06? what? do you shoot them point blank in a cage or what? i can't beleive i'm actually doing this right now. i don't care about your quarter bore hand cannon and i am quite happy with my current caliber of choice so why aren't you? it's obviously that your not or you wouldn't be on here trying to prove it? jst take me as some fool on the internet talking about something i know nothing about....i honestly don't really care. i myself tho, as a responsible hunter would rather shoot at a baffalo with a .277 cal. than a .25 cal. and if we lived in the early 1900's then i certainly wouldn't think twice about shooting one with a 30-30.
if i were you, i would def. check into getting my chronograph looked at cuz i think it may be off a couple hundred fps off.
p.s i hope your not that same fool i've been talking about that always pisses me off when he talks about how great his rusty old peice of scrap iron is.
the speeds i posted were an educated guess and so your research doesnt' really mean all that much to me. if you want i can contact you when i have an actual load for 90 gr. bullets in my 270wsm. which may be never, but i jst thoughr i would be nice and offer tho.
No point in argueing, all I am saying shoot what you are comfortable with because they will all kill if you hit them in the right spot. Why limit yourself to one gun. I have a custom 3000 RUM that shoots 125 noslers @ 3950 FPS, yes thats nice but its far from what the gun is meant for. My 25-06 ai is my deer gun and I enjoy it, I built it so its what I wanted. The 25-06 ai has a pretty big bite for its non magnum status. Please don't disrespect outlawkyote just because you have personal issues with some guy and his pile of scrap. Outlaw has provided a ton of great info over the years and he has no agendas to prove. He likes 25-06's and they work great for him. It sounds like you have some personal issues against the 25-06 but not personal experience actually using it so settle down. I am pretty sure his load and setup are posted on here. 30" barrel 1-9" twist 62 grains of RL 22 with fed 210 primers. He also has a load around here with 100 grain matchkings that he did a 30 shot group with that was pretty damn impressive.
You know, I really like this site for the info, the great group of enthusiasts that share a common love of accurate shooting on somewhat of a budget (we are into Savages not custom BAT actions,etc aren't we?) It really stinks when someone starts a nice informative thread and someone else has an opinion- thats ok, but when we start this 3rd grade I gotta be right crap while I'm sitting behind the keyboard... it kinda ruins what I believe the intent of this site originally was. We are all on the same team here- We= gun owners, we stick together.
The ones that want to take ur guns- they= the bad people that we need to stick together against!!
I think your just struggling with an inferiority complex.
By all means.... Look me up when you get that 270 and 90's shooting.
thanks for putting your insults in the nicest way possible. i'm going to have to google inferiortity complex, cuz i don't know what it means. hahahaha. i'm kidding, listen let me apoligize if i offended anyone. outlaw you seem like a very knowledgable guy, but and in all honesty a 30" barrel heck, thats jst not very menuveralbe at all. one of my custom guns has a 26" barrel and it's almost too damn long to hunt with. no i do not own a 25-06 i've shot them and i like the fact they have a light recoil and plenty of power. yes, even i will admit it has one of the best reputations for a long range deer caliber. i have checked into gettin one on more than one occasion and all the load data tht i have ever looked at stops at around 3400fps with lighter bullets. trust me, i have done more than my fair share of reasearch in pursuite of the perfect cartridge, damn near drove me nutz. my main reason for coming here was cuz i was thinking about building a 257ai, cuz performance matches that of a 25-06 and i was hoping to be to stuff it in a short action. 70-85gr. bullets should blow up better than outta a .243. long story short from your original postings i jst find it really hard to beleive that you can go from shooting a 115 bullet at 3400fps to then adding an extra .5gr. and shoot one 15grs lighter and your able to get another 400fps. jst from my experience usually when you get into the higher pressures, velocity gains level off no matter on how much more powder you add. the only thing you gain is a loss in accuracy. can it be done? maybe and you probably did do it, but that is something that is not going to be acheived in every rifle.
since savages are cheap alot of younger guys are on hear looking around and may jst try out what you are saying for themselfs and i'd hate for someone to get their face blown off. somewhere around 55grs is a great starting load for a straight 25-06. you can proly get around 3200-3400fps and that is plenty fast, it's actually overkill. despite all the bull thats been said, there is still some pretty good info here and not to mention pretty entertaining. i never liked reading much, but can read this stuff all day. i've laughed more than been hot headed while typing this and from the very get go i stated i did not want to turn this into a pissing match so don't blame me if you think i high jacked this thread. good luck to all of you and god bless.
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