Can a custom Savage shoot consistently under 0.25 MOA, or the action is the limit?

[LoneWolf]

IMHO, the best thing to do is shoot five 5 shot groups and see what you can do. From what Jim (Mr. Furious) said, when you post the results, he probably wouldn't believe you anyway if it wasn't in a registered match?? If you can achieve good groups, good for you. If your groups arn't that good? At least you tried.
I'll shoot the groups and see how good (or bad) I can do. The results will be for my own satisfaction and I won't care if anybody believes me or not. No excuses other than "I didn't do as well as I thought I could do".

Well I'm going to the range today anyway! I'll see what I can do.

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[BillPa]

By elbow feel my 6 time loaded Lapua brass isn't allowing the Matchkings to seat with same pressure.
-MAZ-

It sounds as though your brass needs re-annealed, its work hardened from loading-firing cycles. Brass can be miserable stuff, the harder it gets the more it resists changing shape. Its the main reason for split necks, they generally take the most beating firing and resizing.

When or how often to anneal? It depends on the brass and how much its worked. I have a batch of R-P 280 brass that needs annealed after two cycles otherwise I run the risk ripping the press off the bench pulling the expander back through the neck. After annealing the expander pulls through and bullets seat smoothly with only moderate resistance.

A bushing or a Lee collet die can reduce the amount a neck is worked, but it depends how much they reduce the neck OD after being expanded to the chamber after firing.

Lubing the inside of the necks isn't the answer, it doesn't fix the problem, it masks it kind of like the old '50s- '60s trick putting sawdust in a manual transmission with bad bearings to quiet it down!

Bill

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Lone Wolf:
Be sure to report back with your range results, no matter how good or bad. I won't question your results and I'll believe whatever you say!!

[foxx]

Lone Wolf:
Be sure to report back with your range results, no matter how good or bad. I won't question your results and I'll believe whatever you say!!

That's a better way to say what I meant, as well. :)

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Some folks have been known to "put a little hair" of target results but in the long run, you're only fooling yourself!
Be REAL interesting to see what we can actually do.

[LoneWolf]

That's a better way to say what I meant, as well. :)

I'm using the free targets from the midway USA site. They have a pdf at the bottom of the page. With 4 targets per page.

Shooting position will be the prone with bipod and rear rest. Also built a platform to make front loading the pod easier at the range I go to. There is an unlevel gap between the end of the concrete and the firing line. So I built this box as a shooting platform:



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[Rifleshooter308]

9 times out of 10 it will be the shooter and the ammo making the difference. There are plenty of accurate rifles out there and also plenty of crap factory ammo and bad shooters. I love seeing all these 3 shot groups posted on the net. A 3 shot group is not an indicator of anything as they are still pretty much cold bore shots. Pump 20 through your rifle then shoot a 5 shot group. I like 10 shot strings with cooling between strings. This is a good indicator of how accurate the rifle, ammo and shooter. Also 100 yards is a paltry distance for these rifles. 100 yards is 22LR distance for a challenge. Frankly it's boring for any precision rifle and only good for load development. 300 yards is a bare minimum for accuracy and 500-1000 is where the rubber meets the road.

I spent hours and lots of $$$ putting together my Model 12 22-250 for distance. XLR chasis, McGowen barrel, NSS lug/nut, trigger work, nice optic, etc. I spent more time on load development than any other caliber working up the 80g A-max. The rifle made little clover leafs at 100 yards with my 15 year old son shooting it. The test came at the long range. First shot at 600 yards was center of mass on an ISPC steel target. Next five were within inches of the first. At 1000 had 5 within 5" with a variable wind of 5-10mph. It took 3 shots for me to hit the 3" gopher target at 1030 but I hit it. Am I a world class shooter....hell no! Is the rifle accurate...hell yes! But in reality it is the ammunition that makes the rifle.

[foxx]

I'm using the free targets from the midway USA site. They have a pdf at the bottom of the page. With 4 targets per page.

Shooting position will be the prone with bipod and rear rest. Also built a platform to make front loading the pod easier at the range I go to. There is an unlevel gap between the end of the concrete and the firing line. So I built this box as a shooting platform:



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Uh oh. He's hooked! :)

[GaCop]

It takes an accurate rifle to be competitive and it takes doping the wind to win. You can have a rifle that shoots in the .2s all day but if you can't dope the wind might as well stay home and save your ammo.

+1..................

[LoneWolf]

Uh oh. He's hooked! :)

Dedicated! To shoot the best I can with an Axis. Have not seen it's limit yet!

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[davemuzz]

"90% of your horsepower for 10% of your money...10% of your horsepower for 90% of your money."

Also, 5 5-shot groups doesn't really tell us much about the *rifle's* capability. Sure you've got to have an accurate stick, but you've got to be a VERY skilled shooter too and the human is probably always the weakest link in the system, Savage or not.

That's true. It usually comes down to the nut behind the trigger!!! However, I am willing to post a 5 shot 5 round group. But that simply cannot be done on my part until the spring. Right now it's hunting season, and believe me, I just have too many "plates spinning" to attempt to get to the range with 25 rounds of ammo and shoot 'em at an orang dot.

Dave

[Shooter970]

I have a 110e action I just put a shilen select match 25-06AI barrel on dropped it in a houge full bed stock and started fire forming brass and I'm getting under 1/4 Moa every range trip. My best has been .098 it averaged .210 for 5 5 shot groups. I think it is as much the shooter,ammo quality,and just getting a really good barrel. I have a $3000 rifle that can't shoot with my savage. Guess which one I'm going to sell.

[sharpshooter]

Please post your targets.

[LoneWolf]

Well, with my current setup I am not quite capable. I am sure the rifle is, but I am not that capable.

.77 group forgot to charge the real camera and my phone couldn't focus on the micrometer, but it stated .77.



All Groups today at 100.



got a few things to work on though. I learned more about my rig for sure.

[Lessdrop]

Mine shoots as good as I can shoot it which is a lot better sometimes than others. I have shot many tiny groups with reloads and ,an always ,ount on sub moa even with factory ammo. It's a bone stock lrh in 6.5 creedmoor with a $300. Nikon scope and my smallest 3shot group was .087 at 100 yds and it commonly shoots 1 hole 5 sbot grpz at 200 (5/8" and less" my thought is a custom made sav. Done right will have no problem at all shooting as good as the nut behind the bolt can drive it. (by the way I consider myself a beginner as far as long range target goes.) Have shot and hunted all my life, but just started learning to shoot good a few years back. It sure is fun to shoot next to folks with $5000 or more rifles with a stock savage.
Build with confidence and good luck,
Lessdrop

[DanSavage]

I know these are all 3 shot and one 4 shot but I'm not using Berger bullets or any special reloading technique's, the only special thing I do is weigh cases and bullets.

Note that this target was shot 5 different days over a month's time and the scope was adjusted for 2 different local match's that I shoot in. This test is mainly used to test the scope zero and cold bore shot.

Also days 1-3 were using a 70$ Centerpoint scope days 4 and 5 with new Nightforce. cheap ER Shaw barrel.
I will attempt this challenge with my new Shilen Select Match .308 barrel that will be here next week. I will also have to move to Berger bullets and get a more precise scale.

[bsekf]

It's de ja vu. We went through this last year. One hole rifles that have had nothing done to them,IMHO, are a figment of someones imagination. We have a competition every year, it's tomorrow, Sunday Nov. 10. Three shots, in succession, off the bench at 200 yards, 10 ring is one inch. There may be one group under an inch. Most will be 4-5 inches. Rifles have to under 12 lbs and under 24x scopes. A couple of the guys shoot regularly at Ridgeway, PA. They are good shooters with good equipment. I have been lucky enough to win the last 2 years with a stubbed Hart barrel on a tuned Encore action in 7-08 AI rimmed. This year I will be shooting a tuned Savage (thanks Fred), custom barreled 6.5x47. Guys that have been running their mouths usually just go to the car and go home.....and we never see them again. We shoot across a pond...so no wind flags. My Encore rig will shoot 2's and 3's, once in a while. I am thrilled to death when I can put 10 shots in 1.5 inches at 200 yds. That's a 7.5. The Savage does about as well.

[Lessdrop]

Jeez, i was just trying to encourage someone tÿo build and wanted t o share some of my experiences with my new svage. Been tryi
trying to post a pic of target to show its not my imagination. No luck as all i have is a phone to connect here. Since my erlier trips i have found the sweet spot for berger 130 vlds to be 2.835- about .025 to. 030 off lands. Have tried varget, r15, r17, r19, h4350, imr4350 and can't get a bad group from any. Used berger 130, 140 vld, berger 120, hornady 95 and 120 vmax. Only bullet that my rifle does not like is horn. 123's. Am very pleased with this rifle and the good advise from my friends at the range, who shoot competivly and some customers of mine who were glad to help.

Thought mabey i could get some advise here, instead of flames. If you want to call me one who runs at mouth and goes to car, bring your best guna and you money to wi. And well see who swallows the talk.
I also assembled( not built) many gas guns foself and friends/customers that shoot quite well and this was unusual for me to go with a bolt, and would like to see which brand of barrels diff. Shooters are using for gas gun creedmoor projects, rra have been very good barrels for me and also the 18" dan def. Brls. Some have even been quite supriseingly good but better not mention that and piss someone who has nothing better to do than shoot down on others off.

Good shooting anyways,
lessdrop

[FW Conch]

Lessdrop, you and your questions and comments are very welcome. The "heartbrake" of "senility" is a sad state of affairs, indeed :-(
Stay with it .... You'll get those pictures posted! Good luck-Good Shooting & Thanks!........ Jim ;-)

[DanSavage]

I believe you Lessdrop, it's good to have you here at Savage Shooters, I've seen a couple Savages's that are 1/4 guns. One of them however has a Bartlien 6BR 7.7 twist that has a massive fat chamber because of the elliminated barrel nut (shouldered barrel) on a Savage Target action and HS precision stock. The guy is an older highly experienced shooter and along with good reloading he can achieve dime size ten shot groups at 250 yard during a match. I know of 2 other 6 brs that are 1/4, one with a Brux and one with a Shilen select match. Im not trying to push the 6 BR because I don't have one yet but I will.LOL

[bsekf]

Please don't misunderstand. I am all for hearing everybody's experiences and how they did it. However do not try to BS me or yourself.

By the way, I did not win today, got beat by a kid (50 +) and a nearly stock Rem 700 in 243. Still say the wind, rain. sleet. snow and, did I say, wind, blew his group together. He won with a 2 inch group at 200 yards.

As Fred said, consistent 1/4 minute rifles and shooters are few and far between.

[foxx]

So, bsekf, if I got it right, the winner shot 1 moa at 200 yds?

[Lessdrop]

I too am a fan of 6br and other 6's. Used a friends br at a winter match in pinceton, mn for the 500 yd portion of the shoot. It was s ary accurate and a blast to shoot, but he had a schmidt and bender mounted on is rifle, and now anything ived used looks like junk. Never should have looked thru it or found turned the turret. I'm in serious Trouble now. Gotta save nickles, dimes, aluminum cans or whatever it takes to pinch money till some good glass comes my way. Dang!

[sharpshooter]

Please don't misunderstand. I am all for hearing everybody's experiences and how they did it. However do not try to BS me or yourself.

By the way, I did not win today, got beat by a kid (50 +) and a nearly stock Rem 700 in 243. Still say the wind, rain. sleet. snow and, did I say, wind, blew his group together. He won with a 2 inch group at 200 yards.

As Fred said, consistent 1/4 minute rifles and shooters are few and far between.

Finally, someone in touch with reality!

[Lessdrop]

I learned bs does not work about 53 years ago when i told my mom it was my brother that dirtied my diapers. Just too confusing to make up two more lies to cover each one before. That is unless it's something important like " no officer, i only had one can of beer". Bsing about group size is like cheating at golf when you play alone. Nothing to gain. So uless i am selling you a happy marrige with
My virgin sister, or telling you that 19 yr old chicks think i'm hot, no b.s. here.
I call truce. Peace. Merry Christmas. Happy new year.