.17 WSM ammo comparison and more rifle observations

[fla9-40]

I mounted my scope on a Burris 1" Signature Zee Weaver-Style Rings and used Burris Pos-Align Offset Inserts. I had to use a +20 shim on the rear mount and a +5 right shim on the front mount to get a bore sight picture that would allow me to use scope elevation and windage with out maxing out the scope.

I'm was wondering if I did not need to order the Burris rings to solve the same problem I'm having with mine?

Like I stated before, I regretfully did not come here first before I bought mine....I went by some YouTube videos and watched some guy shooting some P-dogs...some out to 200yrds....Looked like the typical accurate gun that Savage puts out!

[n4ue]

OK, airgunner. I was wondering if you were a lefty. I have pretty big hands and I did grind a bit off the handle notch in the stock. This allowed the bolt to close more, but it also made it more difficult to get my mitt in there.....
ah well......
I just used some spare rings I had in my spare parts box. It (the Redfield Revenge) was only off a couple of inches for the first group...
Just 'lucky' from that aspect.
Was gonna shoot yesterday or today, but it's been raining the last couple of days....

ron

[TechHunter]

My observations on the B.Mag are mixed at this point. My local range has recently changed to these crappy targets that are moved by the wind, so my grouping at 100 was about 1.5 at best (some groups in the vicinity of 2”). Might be better at a different range. I don’t like the weight and I don’t like the thin barrel, it does not help steady my shots. I did install a Glades Armory bolt handle and, the first one they sent had a downward bent that left little room for my fingers. I contacted Kevin from Glades Armory about getting a refund and they offered to replace my handle with a straight one. So I decided to give it a try. Am glad I did. They actually straightened my handle and send it back, and it feels much, much better now. Although the tactical handle makes cycling the bolt much easier (besides improving the looks of the rifle 100%), the bolt design still feels weird because it can go down when you pull it back. I do not have any clearance issues with my scope nor with my fingers, but my hands are not that big.

[n4ue]

Hi. The issue of 'RifleShooter' magazine (that I received yesterday) had an article in the 'cartridge clash' series titled: ".17 Hornet vs .17 Win Super Mag".
Since I purchased a new Savage rifle in each of these calibers, as soon as they were announced, I feel (??) qualified to comment.

My .17 Hornet is a Model 25. In my opinion, the M25 is an order of magnitude better than the B Mag rifle. I reload, so the price of factory ammo is not relevant. The .17 Hornet uses only 12 gr of powder so it's very cheap to reload. Almost 1000 fps faster.....
See the article for the author's "hits and misses".
One thing mentioned for the .17 WSM is " cool option in Winchester 1885 Low Wall". Anyone seen one of these???

ron

[fla9-40]

Went back to the range this past Saturday with a different scope and EGW one piece mount.

Only had 20gr that I separated by weight and we had a slight head wind.

I setup first at 50yrds and hard to believe the scope was on paper and was only about two inches low and maybe 1 inch to the left. I adjusted my elevation to be even with the bull eyes dot but left the windage alone. At this range I shot 5 rounds and got maybe 3 MOA. Moved windage to shot right of bulls eye and shot 5 more same results.

Moved target out to the hundred yard mark....did not do so well. I think the best I could do was 8 to 10 MOA!

I had 4 rounds that the bolt was hard to open (Lift was fine) and had 1 split brass! The split brass was on the round that weight was less then all the others.

I wished I could find 25gr's before I wright this one off as Junk!

Red "X" was shot at 100yrds. Red dot is 3/4in

[Va Hunter]

I have only shot the 20's out of mine and was happy with it. Just a tad under 1" at 100 3 shot groups. Not bad for a light cheap gun.

[gsperaz]

Well I have put 240 rds thru my replacement Bmag and so far its a 50-75yd gun for accuracy. At 100yd I have 2-3 groups with either flavor of ammo. All my ammo has been weighed and sorted into weight groups. The gun came with a qualification sheet from savage saying it passed the 100yd range test with 25gr ammo. I achieved that accuracy 1 time with a 3 shot group within the first 30 rounds. Never been duplicated since then. I use a sturdy bench, bags with the front rest close to the receiver. I let the gun cool between groups and have cleaned the bore during shooting sessions to see if fouling in an issue with no success. The ammo has variation and I have collected 25 split cases out of the 240 fired along with 3 FTF's which did fire after multiple firing pin hits.
So is it the rifle or the ammo ? I fired my 22 mag the same day just to see if the weather, ME or even the alignment of the stars had anything to do with it.
I easily achieved 1/2'' groups at 50 yds and 1.2" groups at 100 yds , repeatedly !
Now I really like the 17WSM but what's the deal, is the stock playing a big enough role to impede accuracy that much for so many Bmag owners? My barrel is free floating and action screws torqued to 50 in/lbs, as it was when I received it.
I am at a loss, and looking at reinforcing the stock with fiberglass mat and resin.

[Crockett]

I'm very sorry to here this about your B mag...i won't expect to much when mine returns. I guess i will have to see what i get back and adjust accordingly. I have some West system ready to stiffen the fore arm and some mold silicone to fill the stock butt ready to go.

[Eric Mayer]

*snip*

If you already answered this, I apologize. What have you done to verify it is not the scope, rings, or bases? It is typically the first place I check when there is any issues with accuracy.

Please let me know, as I am extremely curious.

Thanks!

Eric

[gsperaz]

Hey Eric,
The scope is fairly new and was mounted on my 22 mag before the Bmag. I torqued the bases and rings and have double checked them. The elevation and windage also adjust correctly. Since the gun can group often at 1" @ 50 yds I have not looked at replacing the scope.
I really hope to get this gun to shoot well, I don't need a tack driving sub MOA gun just a good shooter out to 150yds. Where I live I need a rim-fire to hunt fox & coyotes in the national forest during small game season. The 17 WSM is a neat cartridge and would hate not to be able to use it to its full potential.

[gsperaz]

I'm very sorry to here this about your B mag...i won't expect to much when mine returns. I guess i will have to see what i get back and adjust accordingly. I have some West system ready to stiffen the fore arm and some mold silicone to fill the stock butt ready to go.

There are several out there with very good shooting Bmags, so don't give up yet. If Boyds starts making a replacement stock things should improve for us with stock concerns.

[Eric Mayer]

I hope you get it figured out as well. As one of those with a good shooting B.MAG, I don't like to see others who have rifles that don't shoot.

Let us know!

Eric

[gsperaz]

I'm sure I will Eric. I'm hoping some stock work does the trick as it has for others.

[Downunderimfire]

Hmm, nevermind.

[gsperaz]

Stock work complete, but I do not think it helped as much as I hade hoped for. I have yet to shoot it due to weather but there is still to much flex in the magazine section where the stock is the thinnest.

[fla9-40]

Stock work complete, but I do not think it helped as much as I hade hoped for. I have yet to shoot it due to weather but there is still to much flex in the magazine section where the stock is the thinnest.

I'm having same problem as you with mine, but I have not sent mine back....YET! Can only find 20gr so I do not know what mine will do with the 25's

Curious what all you did to the stock, can you post pics so we can see?

The ammo has variation and I have collect 25 split cases out of the 240 fired

I too have experienced split cases also...makes me wonder if Winchester is loading them to hot or using inferior brass suppliers.

Let us know how the range trip goes.

[gsperaz]

I'm having same problem as you with mine, but I have not sent mine back....YET! Can only find 20gr so I do not know what mine will do with the 25's

Curious what all you did to the stock, can you post pics so we can see?




I too have experienced split cases also...makes me wonder if Winchester is loading them to hot or using inferior brass suppliers.

Let us know how the range trip goes.

Sorry fla-9, I did not take any pictures of the procedure. It was a pretty simple task once I decided to do it.
I modified an old 3/16" "L" shaped allen wrench, shortening it up to fit between the fore-end dividers.
Then I ground the short end to a point for ease of melting a hole in each of the dividers about half way mark.
Heating the wrench, I melted a hole through each of the dividers to allow resin to flow between the dividers and lock all the pockets together. Roughed up the pockets with a dremel tool, and cleaned the surfaces.
I then taped off any areas I didn't want resin, mixed up some fiberglass resin and carefully pour it in.
I filled the pockets about 3/4 of the way from the top and let set overnite.
I hope to shoot it today if the rain ever quits. I don't expect a big improvement in accuracy since the real issue is the magazine section of the stock. But it is a little better then it was originally.

[gsperaz]

Well I had a chance to test my Bmag out today and see if the stock work made any change to the accuracy. All of the testing was done at 50yds from a bench with shooting bags front and rear.
All of the ammo has been weighed and grouped by similar weight (+/- .1 grain). All 3 round groups, letting the barrel cool between groups.
The front rest was kept close to the receiver as possible. I started with a clean bore and the 25gr ammo. The first group of 3 rounds had a 7/8" spread, 2nd group was 1-1/8'' and the 3rd group was 2-1/4".
Holy cow this thing is getting worse i'm thinking. So at this point I'm ready to pack it in, but I had 6 more rounds to shoot. I figured I might as will shoot them just out of frustration.....lol.
Too my surprise groups #4 and #5 only had a 5/8'' spread ! Now I can live with that if it was repeatable.

But I just don't get it, I used the same hold on the gun, squeezed the trigger ever so carefully but I cannot get consistent repeatable groups.
Ok I'm over it , so I switched to the 20 grain ammo . My success was short lived............
The first group punched a 1-3/8" group and the 2nd group was 1-3/16" spread. No change from the original stock.
Conclusion- The stock work had no effect to improve the accuracy or repeatability of the rifle.
On the other hand I did not have any split cases or fail to fire rounds.
The saga continues..........................

[Eric Mayer]

Weird.

Eric

[gsperaz]

Weird.

Eric

I know.....I can only assume at this point that I have some of the poorest made ammo around. I did buy similar # lots so maybe thats it.
But on the other hand, I weighed all of the ammo and shot ammo of the same weight ???????

[gsperaz]

Out again today, 5- 3 shot groups @ 50yds with each ammo and today the 20gr ammo out performed the 25gr stuff. Conditions were good little wind, low humidity, just the opposite yesterday.
Best with the 20's was one group at 3/4'' group.
Best with the 25's was one group at 1" group. All the rest of the groups were between 1 and 2 inches.
Yesterdays best was 5/8" with the 25's.

[gsperaz]

What do you guys think about barrel harmonics causing some of the accuracy issues.
If you think about the higher pressures of the 17 WSM and the very thin barrel on the Bmag ? Combined with free floating that thin barrel, there is no rigidity to reduce harmonic waves.
That's, If they are indeed an issue.
Testing to follow........

[n4ue]

gspertaz, I kinda worked backward on this issue..... Before I even fired the rifle, I 'fixed' the horrible "flexi-flyer" stock (as I called it in old post).
The stock sure was a lot stiffer, my first groups were not good. I took the 'fix' out of the stock and although the POI was different, the groups were basically the same size. Since I kept the pieces of tubing I used for my fix (instead of throwing them away), I'll put them back in, one of these days. Just readjust the scope.
Then, at least my shooting buddies won't bust my 'stuff' over this stock......

ron

[atshrader]

I have had the 17wsm rifle on order at several local gun stores for over 6 months. To say the least I was very excited when one was available. I went to pick it up. It never made it out the gun store's door. I have never been more disappointed in my entire life of collecting guns!!!! The quality of a play rifle available at Walmart was better than this rifle. The action was very hard to cycle. The stock was flexible away from the barrel. I have been collecting guns since I was nine years old. I am now 68 and have over 60 guns. Remington-winchester-savage. This B-mag has to to be the worst gun that I have ever sought to buy. What a disappointment. Savage--You should be ashamed to introduce this gun as a product with your name on it. !!!!!

[syvairgunner]

I've held off replying on how the rounds I weighed performed but now after shooting over 250 rounds through my BMag, at 100 yrds, I am starting to have some idea of what may be causing the lack of accuracy. This past Wednesday I put 30 rounds through the B Mag which all weighed 67.0 grains. I had some fairly good groups and I had many, what air gunners call, fliers. Just for grins I weighed the empty cartridges to see how consistent the cartridge weights would be. Empty cartridges ranged from 33.2 grains to 33.6 grains.

I do not know how the rounds are manufactured but lets assume the bullets are very consistent in weight and the cartridges are filled by total weight of the cartridge and powder charge. A .4 grain variation in powder loads certainly would cause different FPS speeds and rounds to shoot low, high and dead on. I will attempt to get some answers from Winchester as to their manufacturing practice and just possibly a better quality control might be the result.

My thoughts are keep weighing the rounds and hope you get cartridges that weigh the same.