.17 WSM ammo comparison and more rifle observations

[n4ue]

Hi. Well, finally able to obtain some 20 gr ammo, so today I shot both the 20gr and 25gr stuff.
Since the wind was blowing pretty good, and my bench was at 50 yards, that's where I tested. These are my own thoughts and are NOT meant to disparage the rifle or anything else.

Ammo:
I like the fact the plastic tips of the ammo is different colors. What really surprised me was POI. I expected a small change.... I started with the 25 gr, since that's the ammo I zeroed the scope with. Right where it was last time. Switching to the 20 gr, I was surprised to see it 4" high and left. (just about 45 degrees). It appears this rifle will like the 20 gr stuff better. More on this in a minute.....

Bolt handle:
I put the Glades handle on a while back and it makes the rifle easier to cock. However I noticed 2 things....
1. the shaft of the handle was bottoming out in the stock's slot.....Hmmm. It made the bolt too easy to open, almost 'poped' open.. A little work with a Dremel and it closes better, but makes the next thing (#2) worse.
2. the large 'tactical' knob hangs down so far, unless you have SMALL hands/fingers (I don't), it's difficult to get the index finger on the trigger. If you can force yourself to use just the tip of your finger, it's OK... You just need to hold a rifle with this nice handle to see if it's for you.

When the bolt is 'up', it barely clears the objective (1.750") of the Redfield scope. So this is basically the design of the bolt throw being too great an arc. I could TIG weld the bolt opening to reduce the arc, but I'll pass, but this might be a 'business oppertunity' for someone....

Stock:
I have posted before concerning the flex in this stock. I "fixed" it by shimming the fore end against the bbl. It's NOT the fore end, but rather the thinness of the stock near the mag well. I may buy a spare stock and try to stiffen it.
Why? I like a challenge. I believe this shimming hurt the accuracy. I've pulled out the shims and will re-test tomorrow.
Oh, and like one Magazine reviewer stated, one CAN close the bolt before it is all the way forward. This chews up the stock...sigh....

I guess you could say this rifle is a work in progress.... ha ha

ron

[n4ue]

Ok, test # 2 is complete. These were 4 shot groups fired slowly.
I removed the shims to free float the bbl, as Savage supplied it.
Horizontal stringing went away and the 25 gr bullets shot about 1.5" lower than yesterday. The 20 gr jobs were only about 2" higher than the 25s.
However (there is always a catch, right?), the 20 gr bullets were all over the target...... The wind was starting to blow near the end, but it wasn't gale force, for sure! ha ha

So, the next test will be to shoot the 20 gr first (cold bbl) and the 25 gr last, to see if it's heat related.
The fun continues.....

ron

[gsperaz]

Keep us posted as to your test findings n4ue, mine shot like crap and would like to see someone make an improvement.

[n4ue]

Will be glad to do so. What 'pains' me, is I purchased a couple of cheap Marlin rifles in .17 HMR at Wally World. The first one (a wood stocked model) had a horrible trigger with about 3/8" of over travel. I fixed that and it shot clover leafs at 50 yds. The other Marlin was more recent and it is syn with an "accu-style' trigger. It shot great right out of the box.
Both have heavy bbls.
I have a bunch of Savages and love 'em. That's why the B Mag is so frustrating (so far) ha ha
The group of the 20 gr round today, looked just plain awful.....

ron

[gsperaz]

Same here, I have a savage 17 hmr, 22 mag and 223 none of which had to be returned to savage for accuracy issues or anything else.
As for the bmag, I hope we can figure out a fix for those who have poor shooters. Mine would not group better then 3'' @ 50yds !

[n4ue]

Gsperaz. I feel your pain. My B Mag with the 20 gr ammo shot a 3" group yesterday. The 25 gr was MUCH better, but not a target gun by any means! ha ha
Have you tried both ammos? Before my next session, I'm gonna weigh the rounds, as I have read some reports of large weight variations...

PS I was going to test today. Thought I would clean the bore first. I bought the boss a 'nice' combo cleaning kit. On the first pass down the bore, the multi-piece, aluminum cleaning rod broke! Went to Wally World to get a one-piece, coated steel rod. Sold out. sigh....

ron

[gsperaz]

Ron, I tried both 20 & 25 grain with the same results except the 20grain shot a few inches higher. I gave my Bmag a good barrel cleaning before and between shooting sessions did not help. Hit close to the bullseye with one shot,then 3"high to the right , then next 2'' low on the next. I put 50-60 rounds through it before shipping it back to savage, since I had an issue with failure to eject the last round anyway. When the magazine was empty the spent round would just drop out of the action and lay on top of the magazine. It never would hit the ejection post. With rounds in the magazine the spent round had support to carry it all the way to the ejector. Maybe I'll get lucky and will get a new rifle out of this mess. One of the issues I noted to Savage was a tight spot in the bore I noticed while cleaning, will see.

[JG26_Irish]

One thing I noticed the first time I shot the 20g ammo. My gun was zeroed at 100yds with the 25g ammo. When I shot the 20g'ers at 100yds it was about 3-4" higher POI. But when I shot the 20g'ers at 200yds, they appear to be just about zeroed. The way I see it, you can go from medium range heavy bullet (coyote, etc), to longer range lighter bullet (prairie dog) without making a major change in the scope settings. Seems to a handy to me. Still, the groups on paper with the 20g ammo are not as good with my gun. I see vertical strings indicating velocity variance. That is hard for us to fix. I finally scored some more 20g ammo and will test this further. Another thing I have noticed, which may only be anecdotal, but when I shoot at longer ranges 240+ yds both 20 and 25g ammo seem to be able to consistently hit 2-3" shards of clay pigeons better than their groups would lead me to expect. Makes me wonder if maybe the bullets leave the bbl with some slight wobbles which dampen out by the time they get further down range? Just a theory and until I can get to shoot at longer ranges, it will have to remain such. Has anybody done much shooting of 17WSM for groups at ranges like 250, 300 or longer?

Irish

[Willy]

Think I'll wait for a year or two before buying this gun and hopefully they'll get the bugs worked out.

[JG26_Irish]

The only bugs I see are the ugly, cheap looking stock and the Jetsons style bolt handle. Where else can we obtain a rimfire rifle that is capable of serious accuracy at 250+ yds? I am 100% pleased with mine. I would have paid $100 more for a pretty wooden or laminate stock but knew what I was getting up front, and at least for now, there is not a prettier option available.

Irish

[Willy]

I just do not understand why Savage insists on making such ugly composite stocks; spend an extra few dollars on the stock and improve the rigidity and looks . I bought a Weatherby recently and the composite stock is much nicer. I mentioned that to Savage when I was talking to them and the lady said she would pass the message on to the right people at Savage. I have the Model 25 composite in 22 Hornet and now wish I had waited for the camo version.

What I see as part of the "bugs" in the 17 WSM is the frequent complaint some of the rifles do not seem to shoot consistently accurate.

[Zinzrah]

This is an entry level well priced rifle. A weatherby is on a whole different level of pricing with a much different target audience. My .02 i love my bmag!

[Willy]

Zin, how accurate is your 17 wsm? As far as entry level goes, they could have spent another dollar on stock material, charge an extra $10, and made it nicer.

[Zinzrah]

Mine shoots awsome with 20gr. 25s notso much

[n4ue]

Hi. The info on the different ammo is exactly what I would like to examine. I have enough ammo now, of both weights to do some serious testing. Although trying to make a target rifle out of this gun is NOT going to be totally successful, it will be fun.
I plan to group ctgs by weight and shoot them over the Oheler chrono.

The stock is pure unadultrated junk. Sorry, it just is, what it is. I have lots of Savage rifles and luv 'em all. Except for this one, but it's growin' on me. ha ha

The new bolt has been discussed before and it's better but makes it's own problems.
The thin bbl is...well....too thin.
The stock is an order of magnitude WORSE than some of my Chinese air rifles. At least those are wood and STIFF as a board.
As I have said, good ctg, rifle not so much....

ron

[syvairgunner]

Had my B out today and sighted in using 25 gr. at 50 yards then moved out to 100 yards. As mention above this rifle well never be a target rifle. I would be happy to see MOA groups but don't think it well ever happen. I had sent my rifle in because the ejector was not working (pulled 37 of 39 rounds out with a screwdriver the first time I took it out) this time only had to pull 2 rounds out with the Swiss Army Knife.

After sighting in and shooting 50 or so rounds tried 10 20 gr. rounds and found POI was 6" above POA. The group although not great, seems both weights love to throw a flier every now and then, was better than the 25 gr. rounds. It is interesting to note the amount of burned powder on the shell casings, could this be from sloppy tolerances during manufacturing?

Let's hope an after market stock comes available in the near future

[gsperaz]

S-gunner, my Bmag had several issues including the excessive powder residue on the outside of the casings. The 25 grain seemed a bit worse then the 20 grain stuff. I read several reports about the excessive residue, but no clear determination as to the ammo or the gun to be at fault.
Waiting on my replacement rifle from savage to arrive, hopefully all the issues will be resolved on this one.
Send Boyds gunstocks an email for a Bmag stock, they are thinking about making one.

[fla9-40]

Wished I had thought to come here and see if there were any reviews on this rifle before I bought one this week! I found some 20gr at Academy yesterday and plan on going to the range today or tomorrow (or both lol) and site in an old Redfield scope I have.

I will let you know how mine did....

[gsperaz]

Wished I had thought to come here and see if there were any reviews on this rifle before I bought one this week! I found some 20gr at Academy yesterday and plan on going to the range today or tomorrow (or both lol) and site in an old Redfield scope I have.

I will let you know how mine did....

Hope it shoots straight, still waiting on my replacement from savage. Lets us know how the 20gr does.

[syvairgunner]

After reading the thread on the .17 WSM ammo and shooting over 150 rounds through my B Mag and being disappointed on the lack of grouping I took the advice of weighing the rounds. VERY INTERESTING on how the weights vary. I have weighed over 300 rounds and have weights from 66.8 grns. to 68.2 grns. I did a spot check of 50 empty cartridges and found the weight to be very consistent. Going on the premise that the bullets are consistent in weight the variable is going to be either the rim fire powder slurry or the powder load. A difference in powder loads certainly would account for the 3-4" spreads that folks are experiencing.

The weights that seem to come up the most are in order: 67.4,67.3,67.2 and 67.5, the next time I take the "B" out I well shoot one weight and see the results and post it. Before my next outing the barrel well be cleaned of any copper fouling to hopefully get the MOA the "B" is reported to shoot.

I did install the new bolt and like the way it works, a little grinding and the movement is smooth and closes firmly.

[Crockett]

I shot mine for the first time today and will be weighing some rounds before i go out again. I really don't like the "toy gun" weight of the gun even in a solid rest, it just doesn't stay solid when my pulse is enough to slightly move the gun!

If someone doesn't make a real stock for this gun, i'm going to be very disapointed. I also think the ammo needs to be manufactured by someone that gives a ****, because there are some big differences in impact!

[fla9-40]

I shot mine for the first time yesterday and gave up after twelve rounds. Winds were calm (light breeze then calm) rain had quit and the sun was peaking through the clouds.

I HOPE it was the scope and not the gun!

Started at 25yrds to site in the OLD Redfield Partner SE 3-12x44 (Have no idea where I got it) After first shot and adjusting the scope next 3 shots you could cover with a nickel. I was feeling pretty good at this point

Moved out to 100yrds and the next shoots were 3.5 to 4ft low and 2ft to the left. I tried to bring the elevation up but ran out of adjustment on the scope. Now shoots 6ins low but windage is good.

All the rest of the shots were in a group about 3 to 4 MOA! I gave up at this point.

I have pulled that scope off and will be seeing about which one I want to use as a donor off another rifle to rule out the scopes

Will let you know next week what it does.

Added Later:

Oh and forgot to mention that on the last round the bolt locked and I had to bump it pretty good with the butt of my hand to get the bolt back. It would lift fine but had to bump it to extract the spent brass.

[sharpshooter]

No doubt in my mind, the scope is toast. I remember when the 17 HMR came out, everybody was rushing to get their hands on a BSA Sweet 17 scope, only to find out that most all of those scopes had a problem. Once zeroed @ 50 yds, it would shoot 4-5 inches high or low @100. The group size would remain good, but the point of impact would be way off. The problem was a tipped lens which would move the image of the reticle. Typically a 17 HMR with 17 gr. bullets will be dead on at 50 and 100 yds.

[n4ue]

airgunner, hi. Yep I recently weighed my ammo and 67.2 gr was a common weight. Haven't had the chance to try shooting with weighed rounds, but hope springs eternal!
Did the new handle interfere with your trigger hand? Mine did (righty)...

ron

[syvairgunner]

No problem with the new bolt handle, I'm a lefty so the bolt is not an issue, I've even learned how to cycle the bolt with my right hand without taking the rifle out of my shoulder. Do hope that when a new stock comes available I can order one with a left hand cheek comb. As mentioned earlier I had to remove a bit of the plastic so the bold would close fully. The instructions from the video explained the back of the bolt needed to be parallel to the base of the receiver which indicates the bold is fully closed and locked. My bolt clears the scope without issue so other than shooting shotgun groups things seem to be working okay.

I mounted my scope on a Burris 1" Signature Zee Weaver-Style Rings and used Burris Pos-Align Offset Inserts. I had to use a +20 shim on the rear mount and a +5 right shim on the front mount to get a bore sight picture that would allow me to use scope elevation and windage with out maxing out the scope. I did the bore sight at 30 mtr. then did my first shooting at 50 yards. The POA/POI from 50 to 100 yards was still within scope adjustment range.

Hope to get out this next week and will report the outcome of shooting rounds of the same weight.