Reply With QuoteI was looking at what looks like a mark up on the shoulder, that may be a reflection. The ring looks like a defect or something in the die.
Originally Posted by bythebook
i got to thinking. if the ring was from the lube, wouldnt it have more of a smooth edge on the ring. it felt more like a cut or crimp. If our master machinist is at work tonight i will have him to look at it, and see what he thinks too.
thanks
[I]Bowers 2123[/I][COLOR="#0000FF"][/COLOR][SIZE=4][/SIZE]
I was looking at what looks like a mark up on the shoulder, that may be a reflection. The ring looks like a defect or something in the die.
Just a thought. If there was a defect would it not be longer than just in one spot. Ever look at the marks a dirty die makes on brass? Long scratches. A ring like that with nothing leading up to it is add no doubt.
Finally got time to make a few rounds. I had primerd about 50 rounds a few days back. I started tonight with 42.3gr Varget and using the 150 grain FMJ's. I found some of the FMJ's to have chips in them as I removed them from the bag, so I sorted and continued. I double checked my info, and the chart said for me to seat them a min OAL at 2.800 and 2.810 max, I got my bullet die out and set up to the instructions, I grabbed some of the brass with the rings in them to use as a "dummy" round and set a bullet, It turned out around 2.600, way deep. I made the proper adjustments and finally got them to set around 2.803. feeling comfortable I got my charged rounds and set a few and checked the OAL as I went, Then I started getting a few that set deeper about 2.785 OAL," I removed them" and maybe 2 that was about the max. I started measuring each FMJ bullet out of the bag before loading and found them to vary in length, about .015 difference, that's when I stopped everything. I'm not certain as how that would make different OAL because it seems it should still compress if they where longer and the remaining would remain out to make the OAL, unless the compression is pushing it back out. Tomorrow I'm going to try and purchase some Sierra Game Kings or SMK's and try them. And see how they turn out. I am almost certain I completed every step correct, and I triple checked everything as I went. I did end up with about 10 complete rounds that I feel to be in good condition. They cycled in my action and etc without firing them. But I just don't know if I even want to shoot them since I wont continue to reload any like that.
Do any of you guys have any ideas of what would be going wrong here? hopefully its just the bullets I bought, and will resolve on its own.
[I]Bowers 2123[/I][COLOR="#0000FF"][/COLOR][SIZE=4][/SIZE]
You will get different COL by measuring from the tip of a bullet. I would recommend you get a bullet comparator and set your COL with this.
Now on the other had, bullets will have different ogive in the same batch so the COL might be off by as much as .015± so to get it as near as possible you would have to measure each bullet with the comparator and sort them appropriately. But if your not shooting in a $1mill match or seating close/on the lands, I don't see you need to be this anal!
This tool will also work great to get a measurement of where that particular bullet is seating on the lands.
Here is the Hornady bullet comparator at Natchez
Read the product description on this one:
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...4&src=exrbSrch
And the more expensive one:
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...4&src=exrbSrch
Last edited by fla9-40; 11-11-2013 at 07:59 AM.
I should probably invest in them.
Good news i did get to fire off my rounds today without any problems.
Today I stopped and bought a box of Sierra 150 gr spt hunter pro. I had better results with getting the same OAL length at 2.800 when loading them, I loaded 5 different sets of 42.3gr, 42.8gr, 43.2gr, 43.7gr, and 44.2gr. And set Hoping to get some type of decent results tomorrow. Wish me luck.
[I]Bowers 2123[/I][COLOR="#0000FF"][/COLOR][SIZE=4][/SIZE]
Hmmmm...I'm going out on a limb here and venturing a few opinions that others may or may not agree with. It sounds to me like you are not measuring the specific bullet to your chamber--rather you are simply going by SAAMI spec for the over-all cartridge length (COL or COAL) as opposed to seating the bullet to the part of the bullet where the curve begins--otherwise known as measuring Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO or CBO).
You're starting off with a bullet design closer to a "flat-base" design (not as ballistically efficient as say the matchking or even gameking). I'm sure you'll get adequate results for taking deer--but don't be frustrated if you don't get spectacular one-hole groupings. On the other hand who knows--you may get lucky and prove me wrong . : )
Last edited by thermaler; 11-13-2013 at 08:18 AM.
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
The ring on the case looks to me like the mark left by an outside chamfering (deburring) tool. If your using the lee, be sure to not let the tool rub the side of the case
yes I measuring it to SAAMI specs at the momunt. these are some of my very fist rounds made, im not looking for MOA groups at the moment, just to get them down the range safely. i am going to play with setting them off the lands after i get more comfortable with what im doing, Thanks
[I]Bowers 2123[/I][COLOR="#0000FF"][/COLOR][SIZE=4][/SIZE]
to amuse myself I done the so-called smoke test to determine how far of the Lands I am and I am getting roughly .020 of the lands, I know this ain't the correct way to do it. and I will be buying a kit to do it properly. I don't like short cuts.
since I have finally started reloading do I need to start asking any other particular reloading questions on another topic? so I don't keep dragging this one out.
Kinda surprised your seating takes you that close and you're actually measuring under SAAMI COL--but maybe that's a tight chamber. My axiis and 111's have lot's of room to spare. I don't think you have anything to worry about--assuming that's your actual jump off the lands. Good luck--and post pics : )
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
I with thermaler, I have a remington 700vls in 308. Its the same barrel and action as the 700 police and and sps tactical and there is no way to seat the bullets close to the lands and fit the factory magazine... it would have to be a single shot rifle.. I actually started at 2.800 with my load test, then srarted seating the bullet deeper till I got the best group..
As mentioned above, I have found that it is imperative that you use a comparator vecause diferent bullet brands have different shapes and your jump to the lands can vary based on bullet brand!
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It dID seem wild to me that seating my over all length at 2.800 that it sets my bullet .020 to .025 of the lands. So i went back and checked again. And I got the same results, even trying other methods. I even increased my overall length on a dummy round with a little tension on the neck to 2.840 and 2.850 and it started leaving marks from the lands and pushed the bullets into the case neck further, making the bullet stop and giveing me a OAL of 2.825 with the bullet touching the lands.
I talked to one of the master machinist/engineer at work that has been reloading for years. I told him every method I tried and he sounded like I was getting the right results.
A quick search on the vast world of Internet wisdom tells me that your rifle likely has a tight chamber as manufactured--which in many ways is a good thing. I'm no expert--but you might have to watch things a bit more closely as a first time reloader since you will have tighter tolerances. Watch the case dimensions carefully--especially things like base to shoulder distance before/after firing and whether or not you encounter any stiffness or difficulty opening/closing the bolt. I would keep the cases segregated in batches according to firings/manufacturers. I'm guessing that you will get great results when you find the right load recipe, and perhaps even less work/longer life out of your cases. You may even want to consider buying a 308 axis as your "learning to reload gun" as it has lots of room to spare and is generally very forgiving, and once you've honed your skills go back to your 10 fp--just a thought.
Last edited by thermaler; 11-17-2013 at 10:45 AM.
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
The weather finall gave me a chance to go out and try them. My first 4 sets wasnt that great. But was omd paper. My last group of 5 shots off 44.2 gr varget gave me roughly a 1.25 inch group at 100 yards. I had factors such as crosswinds and being unsteady affect me. So the group could have been better perhaps. I had no pressure signs at all on any case. Maybe the best thing yet they shot better than 2 factory brands of ammo i brought with me. The federals have always shot great but didnt today. But that could have been the wind that i mentioned also. So i am very pleased so far. Specially since their is more testing to come. Will post pic when i get off work tonight. Thanks
It's part of the fun and OCD of being a hand-loader. : ) Your day will come when you find the right combo and will get that one-hole group--you will be hero for the day at the range. : )
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
Thats close to my pet load for my 308.. 42.0gr varget with hornady 168 match and fed gm210 primer
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This my results today with 44.8 gr Varget at .020 off the lands. This a 5 shot group. Very pleased
awesome!
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
In my experience a vertical string like you posted indicates either a hunger for more powder or more consistant neck tension. Either way it looks very good and gives you something to start refining. The hard part is deciding what is "good enough" and when you reach the point you realize the guy pulling the trigger is the weak link.
I had shot a group with a .3 higher grain charge and the group opend up a little. I am going to play with the seating and other variables. I was shooting off a bipod and didnt have the butt end properly stable, so that may have something to do with the verticle movement. I made 25 more exact loads just havnt had chance to go shoot them. Weather has been nasty.
The bipod can do it too as they have a tendency to jump at the shot. Try placing it on a piece of carpet or anything that will slide smoothly on your bench. If you don't have a front rest, I'll recommend the Caldwell Rock Jr as a starter that works well, is nice and heavy for its small size and is a measly $30. That alone may get rid of your vertical stringing. Of course this is only if you have shot multiple targets with vertical dispersion. 1 group doesn't say much.
+ 1 on these three powder recommendations. My .308's love Sierra Bullets particularly 165 Game Kings. 168 Bthp Match but 175 BTHP even better. Make a note of all the great comments on this string.
That looks like my .308 Varget loads!!! Very nice!! As Maztech89 has stated, the vertical string could be a result of several factors including even just one-tenth more of a powder charge, your front rest, the "nut" behind the trigger (that would be YOU!!).
This my results today with 44.8 gr Varget at .020 off the lands. This a 5 shot group. Very pleased
Perhaps you mentioned the primers you are using, but I didn't read back thru this thread to see. I know when you began this project components were sometimes tough to get. I had been a consistent Winchester primer user until my buddy suggested trying CCI. I switched to CCI for my 6.5 Swede, and my Standard Deviation of 10 shot strings dropped (I can't recall the number now) a fair amount, and my groups at 200 and 300 yards have closed up much tighter.
Just a thought.
Dave
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