There data almost the same at the minimum and identical at the max. So that being said. 42.3gr to 42.5gr min and 46.5 gr max is what i should do. I probably wont do max until skill has developed.Originally Posted by BillPa
Thank you
If your going to "start at the cellar" then there would be no need to go any lower even when using military brass. Just look for pressure signs as you increase your loads….as you would with commercial brass….but be aware that those pressure signs could (yes that's a could) come before they would if you were using commercial brass.
Dave
Again thanks Dave.
Got another guestion. I was researching what the meaning "off the lands" means. I pretty certain that its the distance from where the bullet comes from touching the very beginning of the rifleing on the barrel, right? And that could help or hurt accuracy or become dangerous if the bullet actually touches the land when attempting to fire it, by having to much pressure in chamber. And that u shouldnt be more than .020 away either. So it would seem that if a person changed the lands that would change the over all length. I thought over al length was critical. or is that what i should be more concetrating on .
I'm a relative newbie at reloading but I'll take a stab at some of your questions. lands is where the bullet engages the beginning of rifling twist in your bore. Some shooters--like certain match calibers--will actually develop their loads so that the bullets are engaged into the lands upon chambering. But these are not your "everyday rifles" and generally most hand-loaders will seat their bullets with a bit of space or "jump" off the lands (though some do load right into the lands). The relationship is not entirely absolute--in other words while most bullet/powder combos can be improved upon (one of the main benefits of hand loading) by adjusting your bullet seating (usually by measuring distance to the bullet's ogive as opposed to the "conventional" overall cartridge length) so that they are closer to the lands--there are some bullets and chambers which "prefer" a generous jump.
Over-all cartridge length is simply a standard to provide a high degree of conformity of manufacturer's ammo to manufacturer's rifles. As hand-loaders we "push those boundaries" a bit in search of accuracy that out-performs the manufacturer's standards. Factors such as your magazine's length capacity and dimensions of your rifle's chamber will determine how far you can push those boundaries--along with the safety limitations of the powder loads within the case. General rules of thumb are develop your loads cautiously working your way up toward max loads--and be sure to examine your cases carefully and know the signs of incipient overpressure or other problems. A gun blowing up on you can ruin your day.
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
You are correct on what "off the lands" means. Someone once gave an explanation of if you seat the bullet on the lands as this:
Start a nail in a piece of wood. Now place the hammer on top of the nail(bullet touching lands) now push the nail into the board....If it were possible it would take more pressure to do so rather then "Swinging" (bullet jump) the hammer to drive the nail.
On the part of "shouldn't be more than .020 away either" are you saying you should not be LESS or MORE then .020 off the lands?
I have some rounds for my .308 that love it .010 off the lands, while another is .050 off. ALL guns will be different, yours may not like what mine does. I have heard SOME loaders say that theirs love it touching the lands, but for me I would not be LESS then .010 off the lands.
Just my 2¢
Dang thermaler, you replied while I was slow typing!! =
You are correct on what "off the lands" means. Someone once gave an explanation of if you seat the bullet on the lands as this:
Start a nail in a piece of wood. Now place the hammer on top of the nail(bullet touching lands) now push the nail into the board....If it were possible it would take more pressure to do so rather then "Swinging" (bullet jump) the hammer to drive the nail.
On the part of "shouldn't be more than .020 away either" are you saying you should not be LESS or MORE then .020 off the lands?
I have some rounds for my .308 that love it .010 off the lands, while another is .050 off. ALL guns will be different, yours may not like what mine does. I have heard SOME loaders say that theirs love it touching the lands, but for me I would not be LESS then .010 off the lands.
Just my 2¢
Dang thermaler, you replied while I was slow typing!! =
I had read not to go futher away than .020 from the lands, but with the internet you can get multiple responses. That being why i like to double and triple check everything. I did finally get the meaning of what the off the lands means, and what it does. I continued my research long into the early morning. I will probably wait awhile before i start experimenting with that part. I want to get my powder loads down path and etc first. I did find a great chart of how to adjust the lands relative to the powder charge.
Again thanks for all the help. Im a guy of a thousand questions.
168SMK like 0.030 and 0.040 for the 175 in my guns. I know some guys that are jumping the 155 Palma 0.100"
Despite the caveats--I would encourage you to experiment with your bullet seating depths and charges--otherwise all you can hope for is repeating factory ammo accuracy--which to most hand-loaders is unacceptable. : ) Get yourself an OAL gauge, modified case(s) and a comparator for your caliper micrometer and you are good to go. My experience with axis and 111 chambers/throats and magazines is that they are "generous" and provide room for experimentation; reasons I like Savages so much.
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
i dont own any gauges i just use my calipers. i get my seating depth by closing the bolt on a dummy case with a partialy seated bullet.
use the calipers from there. on my lee dies i swap out the lock ring for one with a set screw. i dont deprime with my dies and i remove the
decapping pins. i use a small seperate press with a decapping die which fits all cases (almost). used presses are very reasonable on ebay.
i buy dies on there also. i hate case trimming and usually save that for somebody who wants to help. i hand prime one at a time as thats
how i cull out my cases unless a split shows up. (a really nice bull just walked past the camp within 100') if they go in loose i bang the head
on the bench. if the primer pops out it gets chucked if not its set aside for 1 more firing during practice at rocks. i dont compete so i dont
use any special dies. i do use o rings under my seaters and i rotate the case when i seat. i full legnth size everything. my bag is hunting and i want every one to go in and every one to come out.
I got my dies and trimmer in today finally. I set my dies up per the instructions and started. i lubed 20 cases and full length sized and deprimed them. that went pretty smooth, i did notice a little tool mark about a 1/4 inch below the shoulder, barely can be felt with fingernail, making a circle around the case. Is that normal? seems more cosmetic to me. also after trimming, deburring and chamfering it i can feel a lip on outside of the mouth, is that normal, i beleive it would come off very easy with 00 steel wool. i had to go to work and had to stop for now.
That doesn't seem normal to me. You probably posted this….but I'll ask again….why brand of dies did you buy? Also….can you post a picture of this tool mark?
Hmmmm…..where do you feel this lip? Is it right on the edge of the case mouth? Again, a pic would be very helpful here. But a lip? When you trim your not "pressing" to hard on the cutting tool to create this lip are you? You know….forcing or pushing the brass out?
Dave
Sounds like your on your way. I recommend a fairly religious use of safety glasses. !
I'm a great fan of Lee diesbut own most brands in 1 caliber or more.
The 308 has so much data available for it that you can almost find it in the newspaper. . I am loading Rl15 for my wife's 308. But that's because I horde my Varget for my 6.5 Creedmoor.
Reloading is very addictive. I don't own a rim fire that I shoot. Can't reload it.
Pics coming in a bit. The dies are Lee Delux 3 piece set. I can barely feel it with fingernail, and cant with my fingertip. The tip of the mouth i believe i just didnt deburr properly, and went to deep.
Best pic i could get for now.
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another
i took measurments of these 3 cases. Everything seems close to what i should expect.
Inside the mouth is .307
Neck diameter is .336
Case diameter below shoulder is .453
Case diameter at bottom is .468
Case oal is 2.010
What lube are you using on the cases?
What's the Plc for in the back ground?
Im useing Lee case lube, it came with my press kit. i plan on changing it.
The PLC goes to either a tester or endformer at my job. Im a maintenance/Tech support there. We make the A/C tubing componets for multiple Automative companies.
great news. came home after work. set my dies up again. decided to put less lube on my cases and the problem has seemed to go away, i did look threw the other cases and it seemd like it got better after 10-15. they may been a burr up in the die and got worked out. i will update if it comes back. I did email Lee about the issue earlier.
The tool mark should not be there. Make sure you have cleaned your dies inside with a bore solvent to remove any die coating. Then, I would re-read the install instructions and just make sure your dies are installed correctly. (And if your getting the right measurements….it would seem they are)
If you still get the ring, then call Lee and tell them what you are getting on your brass. Send them the pics. They should send you a new die.
Dave
Yeah what Dave said about cleaning the dies out, I really like the lee lube myself.
I saw the ab box and was curious
You will come out cheaper by the time you add hazmat fees to your purchase!
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
The marks on the shoulder of the 3 cases look like you had too much lube on them and it will make marks like that. Also when you lube just put it on the neck and body of the case, none on the shoulders. I have used many lubes over the years and I have been using Imperial wax and like it a lot.
I have had to polish the inside of Lee dies some times with 0000 steel wool on a rod in a drill to get rid of tool marks.
Just send Lee an E-mail and they will send you another one. Quality control has slipped with a lot of manufacturers in the firearms world because of high demand. Lee customer service is great.
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