I lucked into a box each of these in 190 and 130 grains in. 308 @ the gunshop when they were clearing out old stock. (I also got 100 hard cast lead semi-wadcutters in. 358.) Whole lot was $25 tax in. Does anyone have any experience with these Hornady bullets? The 190's are stable according to the "Miller" formula in my 1-12 twist. 308 if I push them above about 2200 which is a relatively light loading. I am thinking more like 2500 using IMR 4320 or Varget I m going with CFE 223 or IMR 4320 for the 130's aiming for 3100+.