Reply With QuoteI found the primer pockets on some LC brass to be too deep. If you fully seat the primer they are recessed and the firing pin may not get a good strike on it.
I have loaded about 30 rounds in the past week and I have had 3 shells where the cci200 have not ignite. After the first 2 I figured it was the primers being old so I bought 2 new boxes and I had one fail to fire. I don't have a problem with the same gun and Winchester work which I have shoot over 50 in the past 2 weeks. I haven't check my firing pin clearance, I need to find what it is suppose to be
Anyone else have this problem?
I found the primer pockets on some LC brass to be too deep. If you fully seat the primer they are recessed and the firing pin may not get a good strike on it.
I use CCI almost exclusively & can honestly say I've never had a misfire. Now, Remington is a different story. Especially in my pistols....
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
Interesting you mention the primer pocket. I started using the cci on Winchester brass and never had problems. This load is on federal shells so who knows.... I will check that when I get home.
Chamber a fired shell and drop the hammer on it. With no explosion pushing the primer back you can see what real contact the pin is having on the primer. ;-)
same here----Ive never had a CCI-200 "not" ignite. Ive been using 200,s exlusively for the past 10 plus yrs.
LC brass has been the only brass my Savage 10 has seen.
Trigger too light?
Brass pocket too deep?
Ive never had an issue with primer pockets being too deep on my 308 LC brass
imo...you can see/feel the depth of the primer after youve press,d it in.
Lets us know what you find out.
Im curious..........
I bought a batch of 500 primed shells from pulled military ammunition. About 2/3 was LC 12 LR "sniper" brass. Good stuff and the primers were not crimped. The balance was LC 10, 11 and 12 "regular" brass with the crimped primers.
The deep primer pockets were exclusively on the "regular" LC 12 brass. I deprimed all of it since I had no idea why the military had the ammo pulled in the first place. I did find about 10 shells with split necks (remember this is unfired brass). So between the split necks and the too deep primer pockets, I don't know which was the cause for rejection. The LR brass is excellent stuff though.
Havent look at it yet guys. went fishing and when i got back home I found myself on the wrong side of the bottle real quick. Dont like to play with reloading stuff that way.. will let you know what i find as soon as I find. I never had problems with my other rifle so i spect it to be either the brass or the firing pin...
The federal shells primer pockets are shallower than the winchester. I measured the shell that did not fire and about 5 or 6 that did and could not find any difference. My firing pin is .075" so is .025 longer than what it should. I will adjust the firing pin later and see if that makes a difference...
Make sure you seat them hard against the bottom of the pocket. If the firing pin pushes them forward it may not have enough energy for ignition. Another consideration is the position of the shoulder. If the shoulder is undersize then the cartridge may travel too far forward and also get a poor strike. If it is not LR brass then it is basically machine gun ammo. I'm not much of a fan of that stuff. But others here have had no issue with it.
LR brass?
Yes, if the headstamp reads LC XX LR then it is sniper ammo which is a different quality and the first give away is that the primers are not crimped. XX = the year of manufacture. It is far more consistent than the regular stuff.
I bought a 500 round bag of pulled brass at Wideners and as it happened 2/3 was LR brass and 1/3 was the "regular" stuff. Guess which I found the deep primer pockets on ????
great info guys
Ignition problems can raise havoc, and can be hard to diagnose. An ignition problem is always there but many times goes unnoticed until something's changes, such as temperature, components, etc. The first question I would ask when someone is experience an ignition problem is; "What have you changed?" Many people want to mess around with there firing pin length, cut coils off of springs, change out springs, change out triggers ETC, and these things can all cause ignition problems. I would state unless you know EXACTLY what your doing , do not change anything in the action. There are certain parameters that must be reached to get proper ignition.
Now going on to the ammo its self, if the firing pin is properly set up it will have more than enough length to battle primer seating depth, as the primer stops the firing pin from full travel. A simple thing to ask are you uniforming the primer pockets every time you fire? One thing that will cause cold fire/ and or ignition problems is the primers not being fully seated against the case. When a primers not fully seated, this takes away inertia of the firing pin, and causes the firing pin to seat the primer, and what is remaining to fire the primer. Cleaning a primer pocket is better than doing nothing at all, but the primer pocket needs uniformed after each firing to be consistent, and have the best chance of accuracy.
If there is a chance those primers failed due to my reloading it will have to be me not seating the primers properly. Unfortunately I ran those shells by the decaping die already. I do clean the primer pockets and make sure the flash hole is unobstructed.
Here is a pic of one of the shells that failed to ignite.
Last edited by Nandy; 07-09-2013 at 05:10 PM.
Ya know, looking at that photo, by all rights it should have lit off....
And you're absotively, posolutely sure the firing pin is CONSISTANTLY doing it's thing? Each time, every time?
Just asking. Sometimes its the littlest thing that'll drive ya batty.
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
How deep is your primer from the face of the case? The primer strike could be light. Like Frank said...look at the bolt assembly. Take it apart and make sure it is smooth. If the bolt head retaining pin is twisted it can drag.
Something else to consider that can drive you nuts is that the sear is in fact the bolt release and if it binds on the stock inletting or any bedding material, it will restrict the motion of the firing pin (at least initially) the same way that the accutrigger blade does. Depending on whether you have the side release or the bottom release it could be hanging up on different places in the stock.
Too light of a trigger adjustment?
To my untrained eye that looks like the primer is driven pretty deep into the cup--but that still looks like a respectable impact from the pin. Intriguing! I'd be curious if the cups were cleaned was there any difference felt when seating the primer? That seems to be a very high proportion of misfires for a fairly small set of loads.
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
Global warming?....
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
I side with the chupacabra...Originally Posted by fgw_in_fla
Team, keep in mind that I have shot twice as many Winchester primers from the same gun on the same shooting session as the cci missfires with no issue so I doubt it is the firing pin. However I will still look into it.
Looking at the primer strike it looks extremely light, and looks like there is a ignition problem within the action. The shape of the firing pin dent doesn't look right either. Have you blanked any primers in the past? The reason I ask, is sometime when a primer is blanked (Broken open.) the gas will misshape the firing pin, or even break the firing pin, and cause ignition problems. (primer blanking can also cause other problems that can add to ignition problems.) For proper ignition you need the firing pin strike to dent the primer at least .019. (There is a procedure to measure this, and you don't just measure the dent in the primer.) You start going down from this number you will experience what is know as cold fire.(The primer ignites but doesn't have its full energy.)If there is a chance those primers failed due to my reloading it will have to be me not seating the primers properly. Unfortunately I ran those shells by the decaping die already. I do clean the primer pockets and make sure the flash hole is unobstructed.
Here is a pic of one of the shells that failed to ignite.
Last edited by 82boy; 07-09-2013 at 11:07 PM.
Don't jump to this conclusion so fast, I would say your having ignition problems, and even though the primers go off on the Winchester primer your on the verge of cold fire. When you switch to a primer with a different thickness of cup, this magnifies this cold fire situation, and makes it a no fire situation. If you fix the problem and have proper ignition, you may find that accuracy goes way up, even with your old primers. Have you ever had shots that just don't make sense? The bullet goes in an unpredicted area. This is what cold fire will produce.
Im just going to use the bolt firepin that fred (sss) worked on. All I have to do is change the bolthead and double check my headspace... will post back... once I get to use those shells but the way it looks is that I wont be using them for a bit due to lack of bullets..
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