I never realized before how important bullet jump can be to accuracy. My Savage bolt actions usually shoot just great when using the recommended LOAL specified in loading manuals - but my Remington Model 700 SPS .308 Winchester was a different story! I'd been working with it for weeks trying to come up with a decent load (0.5 MOA or better) and it just wasn't happening. I was determined to use handloads which would function through the magazine and that meant nothing longer than 2.829. I did find one good load using the Nosler 168 gr Ballistic Tip that would put five shots under 1/2 inch but most of my other loads weren't doing so hot (1 - 2 inches). The Ballistic Tip would be fine for hunting deer and feral hogs so I relented and tried seating out closer to the lands. Huge improvement!
[img width=600 height=308]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/700SPSBeautyShot.jpg[/img]
[img width=463 height=450]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Remington700SPS.jpg[/img]
Note: All bullets seated for 0.018 bullet jump.
Group #1:
Bullet Hornady 168 gr. A-Max
Powder: 43.5 grs. Alliant Reloader 15
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Remington
LOAL: 2.945 (2.322 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Group #2:
Bullet: Berger 168 gr. BT Match
Powder: 44.0 gr. Hodgdon Varget
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Lapua
LOAL: 2.937 (2.325 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Group #3:
Bullet: Nosler 175 gr Custom Competition
Powder: 43.0 gr. Hodgdon Varget
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Lapua
LOAL: 2.960 (2.380 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Group #4:
Bullet: Nosler 168 gr Ballistic Tip
Powder: 44.0 gr. Hodgdon Varget
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Lapua
LOAL: 3.042 (2.395 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Interesting. I'm shooting Hornady 168gr BTHP bullets in my 700 SPS .308. I played around with seating depth but it didn't seem to make a difference, nothing that I noticed anyway. So I'm just loading the rounds at 2.800" OAL to fit the magazine. That's a big jump: OAL to lands is 2.947".
Today I repeated the test with my Remington plus my two Savage .308s. I used the Nosler 175 gr. HPBT again but this time with the bullets seated for 0.030 and 0.050 bullet jump.
[img width=600 height=400]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Rem700SPS100yards.jpg[/img]
Group#1
Bullet: Hornady 168 gr. A-Max
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.5 grs.
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Remington
LOAL: 2.945 (2.322 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 2.340 Base to Ogive with this bullet. This seating depth used for 0.018 bullet jump
Group#2&5
Bullet: Nosler 175 gr. HPBT
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.5 grs
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Winchester
LOAL: 2.945 (2.368 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 2.398 Base to Ogive with this bullet. This seating depth used for 0.030 bullet jump
Group#3&4
Bullet: Nosler 175 gr. HPBT
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.5 grs
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Winchester
LOAL: 2.925 (2.348 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 2.398 Base to Ogive with this bullet. This seating depth used for 0.050 bullet jump
I shot group #5 because I was having a hard time believing bullet jump made that much difference. I thought maybe it was fouling or the barrel getting warm - no, it was the bullet jump.
I have some 168 gr. HPBTs made by Prvi Partizan with a very short full caliber section. When seated to the normal 2.800 they would fall into the case - right on top of the powder charge. The only way I could use them when seated out would be by single loading so I gave it a try from two rifles, my custom 16FLHSS and stock Savage 10FLP.
[img width=600 height=398]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Sav16FLHSS308Win.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=398]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/10FLPDownrange.jpg[/img]
The target.
[img width=600 height=398]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Widener168grHPBT100yards-1.jpg[/img]
The load.
10FLP
Bullet: Prvi Partizan 168 gr. BTHP
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 45.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: New Winchester
LOAL: 2.961 (2.319 with Stoney Point)
Comments: Determined 2.381 is jam length with Stoney Point. Rounds seated to 2.319 for 0.062 bullet jump to rifling (originally loaded for 16FLHSS)
16FLHSS
Bullet: Prvi Partizan 168 gr. BTHP
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 45.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: New Winchester
LOAL: 2.961 (2.319 with Stoney Point)
Comments: Determined 2.337 is jam length with Stoney Point. Rounds seated to 2.319 for 0.018 bullet jump to rifling.
Well, I hope I didn't put anyone to sleep!
LG,
I'm probably going to stay with the Hornady 168 gr A-Max for target shooting. I guess with all the extra powder capacity from seating out and the 26 inch barrel I'll be able to get some pretty good velocity numbers. I could have a gunsmith cut off a barrel thread but I'd rather just wear the barrel out and then get a Shilen or PAC-NOR. From what I hear long throats are a common problem on Remingtons. If this is what makes the Remington Snobs all hot and bothered I'll stick to my ugly Savage rifles! Well, I've got my deer/feral hog load - that's what matters...
[img width=600 height=397]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/M700SPSwith168grNoslerBallisticTip1.jpg[/img]
Bullet: Nosler 168 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Federal
LOAL: 2.820 (2.174 base to ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 3.055 or 2.413 base to ogive with Stoney Point. This seating dept is for magazine function (magazine length 2.829), bullet jump 0.239. Very accurate! Best 5 shot group at 100 yards measured 0.572!
Judging from group #1, it looks like the 168gr A-Max is working really well for you.
I'm using 168gr A-Max bullets in my Savage 10 FP. I haven't played much with it yet, but so far it's looking promising. I'm getting good groups with 43.5 grains of Varget (same load as yours). I'm using Winchester brass and Remington 9 1/2 primers. OAL is 2.815" which is a .020" jump in the Savage barrel. Unlike the Rem 700, my 10 FP has a relatively short throat. I think I'll stick with the 168gr A-Max bullets for the 10 FP. Just need to find primers so I can fine tune a load for it. I'm running really low on large rifle primers...
I haven't tried the A-Max bullets in the Rem 700 yet, just the 168gr BTHP.
...Don't knock the Remmy's too much with there long throats ....Mine will run with any savage out there..lol...First shot outside of the Bull is out of a cold clean tube.... ;D..
[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/rm1.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=449]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/rm.jpg[/img]
We were shooting my gunsmith remington xr100 and found that seating bullets deeper would send bullets everywhere. When the bullet was close to the lands, it was shooting one hole groups.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Well, I got fed up with the long throat on my 700 SPS and had it rebarreled (260 Remington) and tuned up by Mike Bryant at Bryant Custom. It doesn't have a "Giraffe Throat" anymore!
[img width=600 height=398]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/RightSide.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=398]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/02Bryant700RightSide.jpg[/img]
Five shots at 100 yards.
[img width=600 height=391]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/03FiveShots100yards.jpg[/img]
I'm not sure if I can improve on this load! Just used a load from the Nosler manual that Mike recommended and it put 5 shots in one hole (0.462!)
Kreiger Fluted 26 inch SS Barrel (4 groove, 1 in 8 twist)
260 Remington
H-S Precision Varmint Stock (Glass Bedded)
H-S Precision Magazine & Trigger Guard
Badger Ordance 20 MOA Cant Scope Base
Burris Signature Rings
Sightron SII 4-16 42mm with Mil-Dot Reticle
Action Blue Printed
Firing Pin Hole Bushed
Barrel & Action Finished in Black Dura Coat
The test load:
Bullet: Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: IMR-4350 44.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Remington
LOAL: 2.785 (2.262 base to ogive for 0.012 bullet jump to lands)
I know, this is a strange place to post about a Remington. Just to show, with a talented gunsmith you can bring a Remington up to the standards of a Savage!
...Well, you had 1 of the best out there to do it......Look's good to me... ;D...Gotta love those Nosler BT's...What are you going to do with that Remmy .308 bbl..???
1Shot,
Gave the .308 barrel to one of my hunting buddies. He's a packrat so I'll be surprised if he does anything with it!
sup wit dat Rem? ??? ::)
good shooting guys
Still trying to refine my hunting load but I really don't have much work to do. I got my left hand Timney trigger in Friday, Mike Bryant was going to install it but Timney sent a right hand version by mistake - so I did it myself. Didn't have a lot of room with the H-S Precision bottom metal but the new trigger did fit. I like the wider pad and finger grooves, it's 2 1/2 lbs and feels great!
[img width=600 height=398]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Timney700Trigger.jpg[/img]
I did some shooting/chronograph work at 200 yards. I was really surprised to be getting this much velocity with 43.5 grs. of IMR 4350, that Krieger must have a tight bore. Shooting at 200 yards is great practice but I really do need to get some wind flags...
[img width=600 height=397]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Nosler120grBT200yards.jpg[/img]
Bullet: Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: IMR-4350 43.5 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Nosler
LOAL: 2.785 (2.262 base to ogive/0.012 bullet jump to lands)
Average Velocity: 2916.88 fps
Extreme Spread: 24.60
Standard Deviation: 9.16
#01 2911.95 fps
#02 2924.51 fps
#03 2916.86 fps
#04 2908.45 fps
#05 2929.56 fps
#06 2904.96 fps
#07 2914.75 fps
#08 2906.35 fps
#09 2928.15 fps
#10 2923.20 fps
Guys, I love all my Savage rifles but it looks like I've got a Remington I kinda like! Don't worry, it's probably the only one I'll ever own! Brotherhood of the Barrel Nut and all that! Also, I don't see a lot of information about .260 Remington hunting loads around these parts...
[img width=600 height=305]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/BryantCustom260Remington.jpg[/img]
The .260 Remington load I plan to use for whitetails this year (I increased the original charge 1/2 gr.)
Bullet: Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: IMR-4350 44.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Nosler (1st Loading)
LOAL: 2.785 (2.262 base to ogive for 0.012 bullet jump to lands)
Average Velocity: 2927.96 fps
Comments: Best five-shot group at 200 yards was 0.726 inches (paid more attention to the wind this time).
[img width=600 height=307]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Nosler120grBallisticTips200yards.jpg[/img]
I was having trouble locating more Ballistic Tips so I tried some Nosler 125 gr Partitions. Still more load work required but they don't give up much accuracy to the Ballistic Tips... and they've got a good reputation on game!
Bullet: Nosler 125 gr. Partition
Powder: IMR-4350 43.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Remington (1st Loading)
LOAL: 2.776 (2.270 base to ogive for 0.006 bullet jump to lands)
Average Velocity: 2841.50 fps
Comments: Jam length is 2.276 base to ogive or about 2.782 LOAL. Best five-shot group at 200 yards was 1.263 inches.
[img width=600 height=306]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Nosler125grPartitions200yards.jpg[/img]
For now I'm leaving it sighted in for the Partitions. My alternate rifle will by my Savage 10FLP .308 Winchester. I've almost got the velocity where I want it and the accuracy is still sub-MOA.
[img width=600 height=398]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Sav10FLPMcM.jpg[/img]
Bullet: Nosler 168 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: Alliant Reloader 15 45.0 grs
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Winchester (5th firing)
LOAL: 2.895 (2.273 Base to Ogive)
Average Velocity: 2625.35 fps
Extreme Spread: 10.83
Standard Deviation: 4.12
Comments: Seated for magazine function, 0.085 bullet jump to lands.
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