Is a trued and timed action as smooth as a true custom (BAT or Borden)?

[canman]

Is a trued and timed action as smooth as a true custom (BAT or Borden)?

Thanks,
Joe

[82boy]

I have both, and I can say, that on bolt lift a SSS T&T Savage has a lighter and has a smother feel than a Bat 2 lug. (Going by mine and a friends Bat actions) Sliding the bolt back the Savage will have a bit of slop do to the clearances, but if you bought a bolt body Dave Kiff (Pacific Tool and Gauge) it would remedy this problem. So to answer your question YES a SSS T&T action can be every bit as smooth as a high end custom action. (Bat, Panda, Hall, Nesika, ETC)

[desmo]

Just curious but how long did you have to wait to get your T&T with SSS?

[82boy]

I have several Savage that have been T&T at SSS but they have been done several years ago. You would have to talk to them to get a current time line.

[TAB]

Joe,

I just got a 12 BVSS in .223 Rem back from SSS with a T&T job done to it. I don't have a BAT to compare to, so cannot answer your original question.

I can tell you that I can now lift the bolt using my index finger while resting my thumb on the tang without rocking the stock on the rest. My bolt handle is the stock Savage handle.

I tried measuring the bolt lift "weight" with my trigger pull scale. Prior to the T&T, the scale maxed out at 10# and was not lifting the bolt. The bolt will now lift with somewhere between 6# and 7# of pull. This was an interesting (if not real scientific) experiment trying to keep the hook on the bolt at a consistent spot and angle as the bolt moved through it's arc.

TAB

[wildwv]

Not to hijack your thread but I have also been considering having my action T&T but I just bedded it and was wondering would I have to rebed due to the truing? How about taking off the barrel before I send it?

[Blue Avenger]

taking the barrel off makes it smaller and lighter to ship, but if your not able to do so they can work with that.

Bedding will not change unless you have the nut groves bedded, then you will have to grind only that out.

[desmo]

Do you have to send in your entire rifle for the true and time action job or can you just ship the bolt to him?

Since it takes so long to get the rifle worked on what else would you recommend having Fred do to a stock model 10FCP HS besides the true and time work? Thinking I might as well take advantage of the opportunity.

[Toyoda]

replace the barrel
work the trigger, or replace it.

[memilanuk]

You can just ship the action (receiver, bolt, trigger) rather than the whole action - or at least I have in the past.

Usually they seem pretty good about letting you get on the waiting list, then let you know when you're a little while (couple weeks) out so you can get the action sent in. If you had to send the action in and have the entire gun out of commission for the entire waiting period... I think he'd do a lot less business than he does

Call 'em and talk to 'em.

[wkt60]

I made an appointment with SSS to get an action T&T
emailed for appointment 2 weeks ago and got an appointment for 1st week of April
Looks like about 2 1/2 months out

[range rat]

I sent my F-class 6.5/284 to SSS for a T&T job last year and it's the smoothest action I ever felt. I can't compare it to a custom action because I never had or felt one. If you ask me, there's no need for a custom. A well built Savage with a dead eye behind the trigger CAN get it done! The worst action I ever felt is on my new model 22 Cooper. The bolt needs to be slammed closed to get the extractor to engage. And to top it off, the bolt head catches the top of the loading port when closing. Nice wood but THAT'S IT!!!!!!! The trigger is also lousy compared to my factory Savages. It's my first and LAST!! The cooper guys on other forums with their noses in the air calling Savages clunky and ugly OBVIOUSLY never owned one and are stuck in their ignorant ways. If you ask me that's exactly why Savage is getting top dollar for their rifles. Oh Yeah. Get that Savage action on it's way and see for yourself.

[BillPa]

Bedding will not change unless you have the nut groves bedded, then you will have to grind only that out.

When the receiver ring is faced it will set the lug back equal to the amount removed to square it. If that happens to be .010" for example, the lug will be .010" closer to the receiver thus .010" to bedded shoulder in the stock. Its why I true my actions, install a second pin in the lug then bed them.

Bill

[pklin]

Couple of questions:

1. Please excuse my ignorance but I did not know PT&G makes new bolt bodies for Savages... have not seen it on their website, so can someone point me to the right link to see that info?

2. I have read numerous posts regarding Fred's work at SSS for his T&T work and I have no doubt the quality of his work, but I seldom hear of other gunsmiths doing this work, let alone advertise it, why is that? Are there other smiths out there who can T&T a Savage action? With shorter lead time?

Thanks.

Peter

[82boy]

Peter, not everything that vender's offer is on their websites, you need to call and ask them the questions.
Yes there are several people here that have bought bolt bodies from Dave Kiff. You need to measure your action, and he will make one to fit, it will need the back side of the bolt body turned down for the rear baffle.

The reason why your don't see other smiths talking about timing and truing is well to start with many don't understand it. There are only a few gunsmiths that understand and work on Savage rifles. Many smiths use technology that applies to other rifles like Remington's and apply this to a Savage, some of it works and some of it doesn't. Many Smiths will true and action, but it was Fred (SSS) that did the research, fully understanding the workings of the Savage action, and coined the term of timing. There is a lot of trade secrets in one of SSS T&T jobs, and they are done so subtle they are hard to notice.

The only other smith I know of that does T&T jobs is Kevin Rayhill of Stockade. Kevin and Fred use to be business partners, trading ideas, but later separated. Fred has made many changes to the way he does T&T jobs since the two made ways.

The last Savage Gunsmith I know of is Scott Null and he will only true the action, no timing done.

Hopefully this answers your questions.

[pklin]

82boy, thank you for the information, it is greatly appreciated! Apologies to the OP for thread-jacking.

[canman]

82boy, thank you for the information, it is greatly appreciated! Apologies to the OP for thread-jacking.

A little thread jacking never hurt anyone as long as they learned from it. I certainly enjoyed the way this thread turned out, but I wish someone would give me about $7000 so I could get a custom rifle built, and a Savage and compare them. ;D

Joe

[pklin]

Well it didn't cost my friend $7000, but he does have an almost new Remington with Bartlein MTU in an AICS stock + USO (total about $3500) built by R&D Precision in California, that is waiting for my Savage home-build to get done (who knows when that will be) so we can see which one comes out on top... :D By my estimation, my build will be in the neighborhood of $1500 max (Steven's action, Brux or Kreiger #7 profile barrel, McRee's stock, etc.). Already got my USO waiting... Kinda went backwards on this gun. :D