Reply With QuoteAre you saying that you simply cannot pull the bolt out, and look straight down the tube? I mean....if you can't look right down the bore and see the light at the end of the tunnel....then you have a problem.
Dave
Hi guys, just looking for a little advise on my new 12 lrvp in 22-250. I picked up the gun new and a Zeiss hd5 5-25. After checking the scope for center via the mirror method I installed and headed out to sight in.
Long story> short version = I find it shoots a feet low and right at 50 yards. take it home double check mounting and install a 20 moa rail. I am now on target at 100 yards with the 20 moa rail and used 3/4 of my scope elevation and quite a bit of my windage ( i forget how how much).
When done sighting in I had the scope on target and looked trough the barrel and the target is not visible. If I maneuver around a bit I can see the target backstop down and to the right.
At home holding the rifle up to a light and sighting down the bore I have the impression the bore curves down and to the right. I cannot seem to shine a laser without hitting the bore wall either although it may be the cheap laser.
Is this common? take it back to retail, send it for repair or just shoot it? It seems to shoot pretty good so far
Are you saying that you simply cannot pull the bolt out, and look straight down the tube? I mean....if you can't look right down the bore and see the light at the end of the tunnel....then you have a problem.
Dave
Oh for sure I can see through it. It just appears the bore curves slightly.
I've owned no more than a dozen rifles and this situation is new to me.
If the gun is new and will not shoot at multiple ranges with a fair amount of accuracy I would send it back. You should be able to shoot from 50 to 300 yards with only elevation change and possibly minor windage adjustment. what rings are you using?
A really good smith or any barrel maker should have straightness gauges for standard bore diameters. If the barrel is straight to spec it will slide through, if bent it will not. The armorers checked our service rifles when we cleared out and it was the first time I had seen the process, fortunately mine passed... I'm sure if it didn't pass it went into a heap to be re-built by the manufacturer.
See if you have a smith around who has such a gauge and get it tested. It is better to have documented proof of an issue before you return a rifle to the manufacturer. Apparently Savage has a dedicated station with a hydraulic press to "align" the barrel with the reciever if the receiver threads/face/nut are off. They basically bend the barrel to correct for other manufacturing issues. I don't know how often they need to use it, hopefully not too often... If your rifle was such a case, I would want a replacement rifle, not a repair.
West you make some good points. I hone the face of my actions and nuts as well as blanchard grind the recoil lugs and find that most of the action and barrel nut faces have plenty of proud metal possibly kicking the axis of the bore off pretty good. When I assemble, I secure the action in the barrel vice and screw the barrel in looking for runout. I have never found a barrel that I would consider bent. I know they are out there. I have found actions bent from wannabe gunsmiths however.
This picture has been posted on this very forum.
This is where Savage "tweaks" the barrel if it does not align with the receiver...
I have straightened many shafts in my day... caulking, heat stress, and bending with the press to a tolernce of <.001. Knowing that in some cases the od is not concentric to the bore with a barrel, I have no idea what she is trying to accomplish without some more pictures of the process... unless she is just making the barrel od run true to the action od.
Thanks, I will make a few calls to the box store I bought it at and to a gunsmith and see what they say.
The first try was weaver mounts and burris sig rings. Second was egw 20 moa rail and leupold prw rings. Both setups where the same except for the obvious elevation difference. The prw rings showed excellent contact when checked with a lapping tool.
Based on an optically centered scope it needed 32 moa elevation (including rail) and 10 moa windage to zero in at 100 yards. Like I mentioned, at 100 yards when the scope is on target- sighting through the bore gives a sight picture of grass up and too the left of the target.
So to me the barrel is on crooked or bore is curved. Again looking down the bore gives me the impression of a curve. My other rifles do not give that impression.
Now here is the good part. While checking at 50 yards it shot a .121 and a .135 three shot group. At 100 yards while doing a ladder test it had a .200 group in there amongst .5 and .7's. A few shooter errors also!
If the bore has a curve in it or the barrel is on crooked, will the bullet just keep moving in the direction? A few shots farther out like stangfish suggested should show that right?
Maybe I'm just being too bothered about using all that moa adjustment to sight in at 100 yards. Things like that bother me though!
You obviously have a tomato stake for a barrel. I have some tomatos. I will pay shipping to help you rid yourself of that crooked thing.Originally Posted by minus40
LOL! But you can more easily nab those bucks around a corner.
This mystery of yours has aroused my curiosity a bit. See if you can do a little follow up when you have "the cure" for whatever is the problem.
I've had scope / barrel combo's that used 1/2 the elevation travel to zero it up but I can't ever recall having one that bangs out tight groups at 100 yds & loses it on 200 - 300yds or after getting everything zeroed in the target isn't visible thru the bore.
One last tid bit.... with the scope, rings & bases removed, can you place a straight edge along the scope base screw holes to see if they line up with the barrel center?
Keep us posted. I'm kinda sorta interested on what the trouble is.
Last edited by fgw_in_fla; 07-23-2013 at 08:29 AM.
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
Hey....wait!!..Don't send that barrel back. On second thought.....I may want to buy it off of you. It never occurred to me to have a "tree-bender" barrel!! (Less $$$ to spend on cammo clothing!!)
Send it back to Savage I have a freind that had the same problem with a new LRPV in 6mm br, he sent the gun back to Savage and they put a new barrel on it. They never told him what the problem was but they fixed it and all he paid was the shipping to them.
Well I have bad news and good news. Bad news is we'll never know what was up with it and the good news is I have a new rifle! Well I guess not being able to shoot around corners is bad news as well...lol.
Brought the new one home then installed the same rail and scope after re-centering it. Everything looked good, top of a 200 yard distant power pole in the bore sight and the crosshairs actually lined up!
Only had a few minutes to shoot it and used 50 yards again to make sure it was on paper. This was better than I was expecting, needs 1 click right windage to zero and it shoots just under an inch high. I got a "straight" one this time! Talk about one extreme to the other. I easily could have gone gopher hunting with no scope adjustments with this one, also a new first for me. Looking forward to putting a few longer distance shots through it to see how it is.
So everything is normal again in my little firearm world and thanks to those who replied
I took that picture, and that is my rifle. They don't bend the barrel to align to the receiver....the pressure is applied to the thread joint to shift the barrel so it will fit the barrel channel in the stock. Rolling on the receiver axis, the barrel is allowed no more than .030" TIR. Fortunately for me, that rifle only had .003" runout.This picture has been posted on this very forum.
This is where Savage "tweaks" the barrel if it does not align with the receiver...
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Thanks for the clarification. Is that why I sometimes see light flatspots on the action next to the recoil lug? Also didn't you have a photo of some guy that does a visual inspection looking down the barrel. If so what is he up to in that photo.unless she is just making the barrel od run true to the action od.
The flat spots are caused by a belt sander.....nobody sees the bottom of the action.
I don't think I got a pic of the barrel straightener...my camera batteries were dead. Anyway...he could straighten a barrel in about 30 seconds.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
The guy you're speaking of, as Fred noted, straightens the barrel via looking through the bore. He looks through the bore at a special light box and then based on the shadows seen within the bore he knows where to tweak it to make it straight. The machine he's using is basically a bending tool to nudge the barrel in the direction needed when necessary. It's a fine art and a skill that takes lots of practice to master - which is why a lot of manufacturers don't bother straightening their barrels.
As for the OP's question about if the bore is bowed, the truth is that ever bore in every gun barrel is going to have some bow in it. You're drilling a hole through a 16-30" long piece of round bar stock and naturally the bit is going to drift a little as it travels that length. The smaller the bore diameter and the longer the barrel the more potential there is for drift as the bit's shaft is thinner and more flexible. Generally speaking most barrel makers end up scrapping one out of ever four .17 and .20-caliber barrels for this reason which is why most barrel makers charge more for those blanks.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Thanks Fred and Jim.
Fred, When I was a puppy, I run a belted centerless grinder for small round parts in a production shop and I recognize those flat spots. If the part slowed down or stopped it was ugly. I can see where the interupted area around the ejection or mag port could cause the regulating wheel to not do its job....if that is in fact the process they use. I was talking more about the flatspots right at the juncture between the face of the action and recoil lug. Almost like the force was applied right there. Kind of like a hammer peened it but flatter. It might be what you stated though or even something else. I had seen them an more than one action.
Jim, Thanks for the clarification on the other photo. That good stuff!( does anyone have that)
I found this one Fred.
Bill
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
Awesome Bill, Thanks! From the looks of that big handwheel there is some precision to what he does. Is there any narrative that goes with it?
You would have to ask Fred, Jim or someone else who has visited the factory on the details. As I understand it the gentleman on the left is describing the process which requires bit of skill, experience and a good eye. I also recall Fred mentioning only sporter weight pipes are straightened.
Bill
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
Yep, that's the guy on the left...he doesn't speak very good English, but he told me he had to train with another guy for 6 months before they would cut him loose by himself. He told me that the guy who taught him was retiring, and Savage would not let him leave the company till he trained his replacement.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
This is a video of the process:
http://www.nij.gov/training/firearms...4.flv&slides=0
I saw the same process on a different video but I cant find it now... Still the same...
Members who have read this thread in the last 1 days: 0
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks