Questions about stock inletting and bedding.

[jordan]

Hello all,
I'm about to embark on carving up my first stock blank. I've watched videos and researched out the wazoo but can't seem to find answers to my last couple questions.
First, i want to build a single shot out of an action that isn't. Not a real problem.. Just don't inlet for the magazine i don't want right? But the problem arises when i want to glass bed. How do i keep the compound from going up the big hole in the bottom of the action? Saw a video of a guy using plumbers putty to fill void but that seems like a bear to clean out.i would like to avoid buying one of those costly conversion kits if possible.

Second, i would like to both pillar and glass bed. Do i do this at the same time or one before the other? If at the same time, how do i keep compound from flowing between pillar and receiver assuming i follow the attach pillars to receiver and lower the whole thing into compound in stock route?

Last, would it make more sense not to inlet for the trigger before bedding? It would be one less void to plug and i could just inlet through the compound right?

[BobT]

To fill the holes I use modeling clay, some mess but it comes out pretty easy. If installing pillars and glass bedding too do the pillars first, let them cure then do the rest of the bedding, takes longer but much easier.

Hope this answers your questions!
Bob

[thomae]

I tend to attach the pillars to the action and bed all at once.
I use flat-topped pillars and lots of release agent on the action and the action screws.
The screws that I use to hold the pillars on the action keep the bedding material from getting inside the action.

The theory with the flat-topped pillars is that the action sits on the flat pillars, and the bedding material wraps around and forms a cradle. On the sides of the pillars, there is bedding between the pillar and the action, but it is matched perfectly to the action and provides a radius that matches the action exactly.
If I were to try to radius the pillars myself, I would never get it just right and would not be able to guarantee that the contact would be ideal (centered).

So the flat pillars have metal to metal contact along the centerline of the rifle. This allows proper torquing of the action screws to firmly seat the action. The bedding material wraps around the action and centers everything and prevents side to side movement.

Does that make sense?

[Nor Cal Mikie]

I do mine in two steps. Pillars attatched to the action. (LOTS of release agent on the action!!) Glue them in place in the stock.
After you're done with the first step and you're happy with the clearence at the tang and the barrel is centered in the forearm, you can bed the action. Packing tape over the mag opening in the action will get you close. Single shot follower would be much better. Patience is a virtue!

[jordan]

Bob, How do you know how much to relieve around the pillars after seating them and how do you get that uniform? And does modeling clay resist compression enough to keep from getting pushed back into the action
Thomae, have you ever used the kiwi shoe polish as a release agent before?
Mikie, would the tape ruin the whole point of glass bedding since it will be the depth of the tape from touching the bedding?

[thomae]

I use either Kiwi clear shoe polish or paste wax (I have a large can of it, probably 50 years old for wood finishing). They both work. I used Kiwi as a release agent for something, I know, but usually I use the big old can of Johnson's Paste Wax.

[jordan]

Awesome! So as far as plugging the mag hole in the action? Would clay be rigid enough to avoid being pushed it if the way by the bedding material? And would the tape just create space between action and the bedding?

[thomae]

Awesome! So as far as plugging the mag hole in the action? Would clay be rigid enough to avoid being pushed it if the way by the bedding material? And would the tape just create space between action and the bedding?

Use release agent on the inside of the action so that if any bedding material seeps around the edges, you can cut it/break it off. Before you remove the action after bedding it, take the clay out of the action, check that the bedding material has not seeped in, and remove it if it has. Careful work with a small razor knife should allow you to cut it away as long as it has not bonded to the action (did I say to use release agent often enough?). Then you should be able to remove the barreled action from the stock. You can use a pencil or sharpie to mark the bedding material below the magazine port cutout and then, with the action removed, you can cut away or smooth just that section as you wish.

Tape would make a small gap(the thickness of the tape), but if used judiciously, would probably not affect the quality of the bedding. I am not sure how you could put the minimum amount of tape on the action and guarantee that it would not fail. Since tape won't stick to release agent, I would shy away from that method.

Caveat. I have bedded a few rifles, but never filled up an existing magwell to turn a repeater action into a single shot.

[BobT]

Bob, How do you know how much to relieve around the pillars after seating them and how do you get that uniform? And does modeling clay resist compression enough to keep from getting pushed back into the action
Thomae, have you ever used the kiwi shoe polish as a release agent before?
Mikie, would the tape ruin the whole point of glass bedding since it will be the depth of the tape from touching the bedding?

If I understand correctly, I just hog out enough material around the pillars to get a good mechanical bond with the fiberglass bedding compound. I have never had a problem with the clay pushing back up into the holes. I don't tighten anything very much when doing the bedding, just barely snug. I use flat topped pillars too, I attach them to the action with plenty of release agent on the screws and the action. Before putting the release agent on the action, I wrap a couple of layers thickness of masking tape around the action and enough layers around the barrel to center up the barreled action in the stock and put release agent on over the tape. I mix enough bedding compound for the pillars and glue them in . When the bedding material is fully cured I pull the tape off the action, reapply the release agent and bed the action, I use headless screws in the pillars with enough wraps of tape to center them in the holes. I use a piece of surgical tubing to tie the action in the stock, you don't need much pressure, just keep things from sliding around. Let everything set up solid then pop the action out and let the bedding fully cure. It's hard to mess up as long as you use PLENTY of release agent.

Bob

[thomae]

When bedding, I attach the action to the stock with black electrical tape. It is snug but has enough give. I put enough tape around the barrel at the end of the stock to make sure it is freefloated, and then I put enough tape around the tang so that I know it will be free-floated when i remove the tape. The action is suspended between the taped tang and the taped barrel and the electrical tape keeps it snug against the bedding compound, but is not strong enough to bow or flex the action.

Bob T is correct, use lots of release agent...and also, don't forget to wrap tape around your action screws so that they are centered within the pillars.

Where Bob T and I appear to differ is that I do everything at once. He does it in two steps. I have no criticism of his method, but I choose to do it differently. My rifles seem to shoot ok. His probably do too. I guess we differ in technique, not procedure.

I use this as a general guide, with modifications (since I am working on a Savage, not a Remington: http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

Hope this helps.

[jordan]

Bob, my question was more along the lines of, how do you know how tall to make the pillars? When pillar bedding i assume you have to make it just slightly too tall so that bedding can flow around it on top of the stock? Does that make sense?

[BobT]

I use a depth micrometer to measure from the bottom of the stock to the bottom of the action through the screw hole then subtract the depth of the trigger guard inlet. On the front screw I use the same technique except when I make the front pillar I counterbore it for the screw head, making it a little deeper than I need to so it will be a little "proud" and I dress it off to match the bottom of the stock when I'm done, this is on a gun with no floorplate of course.

The rear pillar is the most important length wise, I don't make the pillars too tall but remove material from around them afterward for the bedding compound. The main reason I do it in 2 steps is so I can preserve the critical geometry of the assembled action, it helps insure smooth feeding in repeaters, not really too big an issue with single shots. When I pillar bed I'm going for metal to metal contact so I can torque the action screws without squeezing the stock and causing something to flex. I have seen guys leave pillars sticking up but then your inletting depth is off.

Bob

[thomae]

Bob, my question was more along the lines of, how do you know how tall to make the pillars? When pillar bedding i assume you have to make it just slightly too tall so that bedding can flow around it on top of the stock? Does that make sense?

I have a slightly different answer to your question. I bed with flat-cut pillars (lamp rod cut and faced on a small lathe) attached to the action (bed pillars and action in one step). That way the pillars are metal-to-metal against the action, and the bedding material flows around them and cradles the action in a stress-free way. I measure my pillars and test fit ahead of time, but since the extra length is at the bottom of the stock (and the bottom of the pillars are recessed anyway), if I am off by .01" or so, it is not noticable and it has no effect on how and where the action sits in the stock. I cut the recess for the trigger after I am done bedding.

BobT is spot on when he says, "When I pillar bed I'm going for metal to metal contact so I can torque the action screws without squeezing the stock and causing something to flex." That's the main advantage that pillars give you.

[Captlink]

I hope this is not off topic.
I install pillars mated directly to the receiver metal to metal.The action is made to free float on purpose from the stock with no bedding compound.The only other contact is the recoil lug and every thing else is relieved of any contact. I used to bed the rear tang but found it did not help any.I only have pillar bedded less than great stocks to help them without machining a bedding block as that would be choice one.
Lets hear it for Johnson's paste wax!

Taking your time you should be able to do a great job of in-letting a perfect metal to wood fit and no pillars or glass is needed.
You can practice using a black iron nipple 4-6" long and a piece of pine wood.The wood is soft and will help you develop a light touch with your scraper and the use of in-letting black.I will tell you once about in-letting black it gets everywhere.Best luck with your project.