Thinking out loud

**03mossy** · 07-01-2013, 03:31 PM

In my never ending quest for the "whats next". I have been thinking about what would be the next step up in my prairie dog/ long range arsenal. My main varmint gun now is a 22-250 which I absolutely love but I have the urge to go farther. By farther I mean I want to say I shot a prairie dog at 1000 yards someday. So I have a few thoughts I want to bounce off the group. First for caliber I am thinking something along the lines of either 6br, 6.5-47 lapua, or .260 rem standard or ai. I do reload so the skies the limit on caliber. With a 30" bull barrel as this will be a bench only gun. And as far as action could this accuracy be acheived on a standard 110 action or would it be better to go with a target action from Northland? Just throwing ideas out there.

This will be my 4th build...

Hi my name is 03mossy.... I am addicted to tinkering with Savage rifles....

**bootsmcguire** · 07-01-2013, 05:20 PM

I am a fan of the 6mm bore, so I am a bit prejudice. Have you thought about the 243AI, 6mm-Rem-AI, or going full blown wildcat and doing a 22/6mm-AI or something like a 6SAUM or 6WSM? I have the 6WSM and so far I am loving it. A 105 A-Max at 3600+ FPS can do so interesting things. I am still nailing down a final load, but I have yet to make a 5-shot group over 1MOA and with loads close to my chosen charge range have all been 1/2MOA or smaller.

I am seriously thinking I need a 22/6mm-AI myself. 80gr+ bullets have great BC's and with reported loads reaching 3750+ FPS that sounds like just as much fun with a smaller bullet.

Of the calibers you specified, the 260AI or 6BR get my vote.

**stomp442** · 07-01-2013, 06:11 PM

I vote for the 260AI. I have one running out of a 26" CBI and it will do anything a 6.5-284 will do and be a bit more efficient to boot. I'm only running 44 grains of H4831sc as my pet load with a 140 berger at 2940fps. This load shows no pressure in my rifle and will shoot 1-1/2" groups at 500 meters pretty reliably.

**scope eye** · 07-01-2013, 06:24 PM

If you go with a 260Rem, go they AI route.

Dean

**03mossy** · 07-01-2013, 11:47 PM

Thanks for the suggestions guys. And boots I never thought about a wsm or saum. I bet a 6 saum is a cool looking little cartridge. I will look into all the suggestions.

Now what about actions? Could a 110 or 10 be made into as accurate as a target action. Sure would save on the costs. My other builds have been for hunting and not long range accuracy.

stangfish · 07-02-2013, 12:03 AM

hey mossy, you might see marginal differences in accuracy between the target and the standard action. If you trued it up and aligned the scope mount screws with the barrel/action axis you might do better. But if you do that why not buy a Shilen action?

**Jamie** · 07-02-2013, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by bootsmcguire

I am a fan of the 6mm bore, so I am a bit prejudice. Have you thought about the 243AI, 6mm-Rem-AI, or going full blown wildcat and doing a 22/6mm-AI or something like a 6SAUM or 6WSM? I have the 6WSM and so far I am loving it. .

I am with boots on this, build a .243 AI or a .244 AI and you can hit them alot farther than 1K. The B.C. of the 6.5's is slightly higher but not enough to overcome the velocity of the fast 6mm's.

**scope eye** · 07-02-2013, 10:47 AM

When I am not goofing off sending 85gr Sierra HP @ 4200fps+ those 140 and 142 SMKs are poetry in motion coming out of a 264 WinMag,
High BC and High velocity it's the best of both worlds what more could you want, I send mine screaming @ 3300+ but I am sure you could get them going 3000+ with no pressure signs, just another viable option.

Dean

308law · 07-02-2013, 06:45 PM

I have done some long range prairie dog shooting, out to 900 yrds plus. I think any of the calibers you mentioned would work fine with the best high bc bullets you can find for that caliber, Hornady A-max, Berger, or Sierra Match King and the like. The problem is more in the optics and your ability to estimate range. The optical quality of a scope and magnification become critical at 1000 yrds. A really good range finder is an absolute must with a tri-pod mount, at that range you cannot hold a range finder steady enough on a pd mound to get a good range estimation. A missed range estimation of just 25 yards at that range is a complete miss by several inches at 1000 yrds. A good muzzle brake and a very heavy rifle will help lessen recoil so you can see your bullet strikes. I have used a 6mm Remington with 105 grn A-max's, but I am thinking that a 22-250 AI with a 1 in 7 twist will be my next long range build. By the way you should try a 204 Ruger as your main caliber, its flatter shooting than the 22-250, better in the wind, less recoil, less powder, which means longer strings of fire before the barrel gets too hot to shoot.

Nandy · 07-02-2013, 11:54 PM

Oh how do I envy you guys that have access to long range shooting... sorry for the hijack...

**mattri** · 07-03-2013, 11:56 AM

A buddy just built a straight 260 with a 30" Criterion, its accurate as hell and very effective on everything from dogs to deer.

**03mossy** · 07-03-2013, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by 308law

By the way you should try a 204 Ruger as your main caliber, its flatter shooting than the 22-250, better in the wind, less recoil, less powder, which means longer strings of fire before the barrel gets too hot to shoot.

I built a bull barreled .204 last year for prairie dogging and in all honesty I do not feel it lived up to the hype. Sure it was fun to shoot but it does not give the theatrics that a 22-250 does. And the biggest argument I see people talking about the 204 is that you can see your hits through the scope, well I can also through my 22-250 so there is no advantage there. I will admit I have a soft spot for the 22-250 and hold it above all other calibers. I will more then likely build another .204 in the future to give it a fair try.

**bootsmcguire** · 07-03-2013, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by 03mossy

I will admit I have a soft spot for the 22-250 and hold it above all other calibers.

I too once had a great respect for the 22-250 (and still do) and I was always comparing other varmint rounds to it and they all seemed to fall short. Then I built my 243AI and started launching the 58gr V-Max at 4000+ FPS. The BC is nearly the same for the 55gr .224 V-Max and the 58gr .243 V-Max so no loss there and the added speed made it incredibly flat shooting. With my varmint barrel I wasn't having issues with not being able to watch my hits until over 500yds, but then again a mouse fart is enough to loose it out that far, and a brake would easily solve that.

I now find myself comparing my 243AI to my 6WSM, and the 6WSM looks like it will be even flatter and retain that to much greater distances being able to shoot the 105 A-Max at 3600+ FPS. Only issue there is mine does loose sight of the target from recoil, in hind-sight I wished I had threaded the muzzle for a brake when I had the barrel built. I will have to get around to that one of these days.

I too am not a big fan of the 204. I did a comparison of the 22-250 and 204 at 200yds on a windy day. On calm days they both were giving me 1/2MOA, but add in a 15mph cross wind and the 22-250 won every time. In the 204 I was using 40gr V-max's and in the 22-250 I was using 55gr Sierra Spitzers. I suppose I should compare them both using 40gr bullets, but that 22-250 barrel just doesn't seem to care for any of the 40s I've tried in it. The 204 has its uses, but so far I just seem to like my others better.

**missed** · 07-03-2013, 05:10 PM

I keep wanting to do a .22-250AI build and I keep thinking a 8" twist. But then I think .243AI. Just for varmints I have the .308 to back it up also. I just need to find an action. In the fast twist .22-250 how fast can you get the lighter bullets flying before they spin apart? I was thinking about wanting to be able to shoot 80 ISH grain bullets.

**bootsmcguire** · 07-03-2013, 05:26 PM

Well I know in my 12 twist I could get the hornady Spitzers to fly apart at 3400FPS. Now my 243AI is on a 9.25" twist and the 58gr V-Max holds together at 4000FPS. I have had the 55 V-Max up to 3600 in a 9" twist 22-250AI during some fireforming. With the 9" twist I am hoping to be able to shoot the 75gr Hornady Match BTHP or A-Max but haven't been able to get my hands on any to try since I got the barrel.

The V-Max tends to be a bullet capable of a good amount of RPMs before they come flying apart, but if you intend on pushing 40gr pills really fast I think the 8" twist is going to be to fast.

Here is the formula for figuring RPMs:

(Muzzle Velocity X 720) / Twist = RPM

IIRC the V-Maxes top out at like 315,000 RPMs but I can't remember for sure. Another member here was discussing it on another thread and had the max RPMs for several bullet styles listed. A call to hornady (or whatever maker) would answer it for sure. The guys at Hornady and Sierra have treated me well when I have had questions.

**missed** · 07-03-2013, 06:07 PM

Thanks boots,

I'm kinda leaning to the 9" MC gowen .22-250AI. I still have some research and decisions to make.

**03mossy** · 09-16-2015, 03:56 PM

Bringing up and old thread as I am really thinking about doing this finally. I just need to work up the nerve to sell my Smokeless .45 barrel to fund this. Anyway I am still torn between the 243ai, 6 rem mag ai, and the 6br. The 6 rem appears to be the best options for long range varmints but the 6br seems like it would be better for paper punching. Please convince me which way to go so I can stop wearing out google researching these.

**drybean** · 09-16-2015, 04:04 PM

6BR or 6Dasher

**LoneWolf** · 09-16-2015, 04:17 PM

in my few experiences shooting some varmint matches with a straight 243win. At 600yds with a 105AMAX going 3025fps I have to be with .1Mils on my wind call. I think you should just go 243ai if you want a fast 6. Lots of brass and components available. It's never fun when you need something specific and it's only available on a seasonal run.

**snowgetter1** · 09-16-2015, 07:25 PM

I too had a 204 ruger and was immensely disappointed in its performance. But, my best long range p-dog gun is my 260 with a 26" ER Shaw and Ross brake. I use 100gr a-max at about 3200-3300 fPs, I forget the exact velocity. It beats my 243 wssm that shot botH 87gr vmax and 80gr boat tail at very high velocity. If I did it again I would probably do the 260AI.

**03mossy** · 09-16-2015, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by snowgetter1

I too had a 204 ruger and was immensely disappointed in its performance. But, my best long range p-dog gun is my 260 with a 26" ER Shaw and Ross brake. I use 100gr a-max at about 3200-3300 fPs, I forget the exact velocity. It beats my 243 wssm that shot botH 87gr vmax and 80gr boat tail at very high velocity. If I did it again I would probably do the 260AI.

If my memory serves me right (questionable) it was your .204 barrel I had for a while.

**Robinhood** · 09-16-2015, 10:18 PM

Dasher or 6mm SLR

LongRange · 09-17-2015, 08:25 AM

i too keep flip flopping around about a 6mm and the one thing that keeps me from it is barrel life...i shoot a lot so with a 6mm id probable re-barrel twice a year with a 6.5 i re-barrel every 12 to 14 months plus with a 6.5 youd be able to shoot heavier bullets if you wanted to.