In the past I rebarreled a .243 model 10 with a 1:12 McGowen, to be very disappointed (the guy who took my order said "you will be surprised what it does at 300 yards" well I wasn't). I really don't want that to happen again. I just picked up a model 110 and want to rebarrel it.
I noticed that most aftermarket manufactures only make nothing faster than 1:10 with the exception of PAC-NOR....I'm sure there's more, but I haven't looked. The heaviest bullet for 25 cal. is 120, but I'm looking to use a 85 -90 grain for varmints. I already have a .270 winchester for deer and black bear.
Can I get some feedback as to whether or not a 1:10 will be the best choice to stabilize these bullets for the utmost accuracy. I read reviews on Midwayusa about Nosler BT 85 grain.... here's what one guy said...
"These work excellent in my 25.06. In fact, they are so accurate, they're boring. I've punched more than my share of one hole groups with my Savage & handloads.
A little IMR 4350 & these, you too can have a boring rifle"....
Help me out.... what twist do you think he's using?
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-08-2013 at 11:50 PM.
I have a 12 twist 25-06 McGowen and it sends anything I load in to it with out a fuss, don't forget that a 25-06 holds 15 grains more powder than the 243, so that in itself will take care of any issues you might have, my favorite load is 63gr of RL17 topped off with a 70gr sierra Blitz King, 4200+ FPS every time rain or shine.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
don't forget that a 25-06 holds 15 grains more powder than the 243, so that in itself will take care of any issues you might have
Is your rifle bedded?
How do you know that, are you comparing your 06 1:12 to a .243 you had or have with a 1:12 mcGowen? And how does your load hold up at 300 yards or better for accuracy? Shoot I just dumped RL17 to the garden. LOL
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-08-2013 at 11:06 PM.
Here's a 200 yd shot with 115gr Nosler's out of a 1/10 twist. I don't see any problem. Mine will do one hole / 5 round groups with 85's & 100's on a good day. Or rather when I'm having a good day....
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
I was saying that because I also have a 243 12 twist McGowan, and I bet you he was not sending what ever he was shooting fast enough, and with they extra 15gr of powder that will take care of that, since 243 and 25-06 shoot the same range of weight in bullets from 60gr to 120gr. you may not like RL17 but it is the second most popular powder, only second to Varget, and my high velocity loads are phenomenal up to 600yds with minimal drop and drift, the secret is flight time, the less flight time there is the less the bullet can be affected in it's trajectory, when the discussion is about 105Amax's or 115Dtac's there is nothing I can really contribute to the conversation, but I must have over 20,000 rounds down range at over 4000 FPS in a dozen different calibers from 17 Remington all the way to 50 BMG , so I do know a little about velocity.Originally Posted by flatshooter
Respectfully
Dean
Last edited by scope eye; 06-09-2013 at 07:38 AM. Reason: spellink
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
Dean,
I honestly don't remeber how hot I loaded for the 12 but it sounds like that was my mistake although I got some great accuracy at 100 yards. But the sad thing is noone at McGowen could help me. I was almost to the point of sending back the 12 for an 8, and for half the price they agreed on.
The rifle was traded at a local shop for a custom mauser .243 with a 1:10 extra heavy bull barrel, I swapped to some guy who works there who swapped for a handgun. So one day I saw my mauser... went home being digusted with the model 10 with the 12 vamint McGowen, and swapped it out. The mauser shoots ok... but the best results is when I shoot a hot load with the bullet jammed into the rifling, but it causes primer pockets to open up... sooo I don't like that idea.
So whats phenomenal? Is this the load you listed above? The 4200+ FPS.... what rest setup do you have?my high velocity loads are phenomenal up to 600yds with minimal drop and drift,
Any pics of the targets?
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-09-2013 at 08:09 AM.
Hey Shooter to late now, but if me and you would of had a little chit chat, we would have made that barrel cry uncle and fix it non cooperating attitude, LOL if you are once bittin twice shy a 10 twist 25-06 will do everything you want it to do, Quarterbores ya baby
that's happening, I have two an 06 and a 257 Weatherby both in twelve twist, but like I said a 10 twist will meet or exceed your expectations. on the same note jamming bullets into the lands will often cause pressure signs, even way below max loads, I load everything 100 thou off and no that's not a typo.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I just remembered I have a fellow shooter that put a 12 twist on his rig in 243, and he came back to me and said he wanted to shoot heavier bullets, so I rented a reamer for 50 bucks and turned into an AI, that took care of that, it even tightened up the grouping on the lighter stuff, that extra 4 grains of powder made a world of difference, and put those 105, over that threshold to stop the tumbling and was able to shoot anything from 55 Nosler's to 105 Amax's, talk about 50 bucks well spent, that doesn't happen to often.
Dean
Last edited by scope eye; 06-09-2013 at 08:40 AM. Reason: spellink
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
Well I guess I should fininsh my set up on the model 10.... I put a Boyd thumbhole with no glass... free floated the barrel.
It had a Bushnell 5-15x42 3500 Elite, with the accutrigger set as low as it would go.
What have you done to your rig besides the barrel?
My jaw just dropped, I have that setup on several of my riggs none of my boyds are bedded either, but plenty of breathing room around the barrel and not just a dollar bill, I have like min 1/8 inch + at any given place along the barrel so the stock does not absorb any of the heat either and keep it in, cooling time is almost cut in half, there are two other things that I find that make a difference for short money, a heavy duty recoil lug as in thick I find it really transfers the harmonics better, and a steel trigger guard it holds they action in snugger with out over tightening it.
Dean
PS:
You could get those Bushnell's for like 199.99 at one point, I really miss those days, I could not tell the difference between the 4200 and the 3200 I sure there was but I couldn't see it.
Last edited by scope eye; 06-09-2013 at 09:28 AM. Reason: spellink
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I don't have any paper targets to show, since I only use paper to sight in I have to shoot at something like an object or animal to keep my attention and concentration, steel plates - old tractor parts my wife's pots and pans " honey what ever happened to that skillet we had" I have other shooters shoot my rigs all the time, and some of them get a half min or less which is very good for your ego as far as the gun goes, but not so good for they ego as far as I wish I could shoot that good, with out bragging I can can get a shot off while sweeping or a moving target like nobody I know, all those years of tree tapping squirrels have paid off after all, LOL I guess you can't be good at everything,
Dean
Last edited by scope eye; 06-09-2013 at 10:18 AM. Reason: spellink
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
all bullet weights?a 10 twist 25-06 will do everything you want it to do
what about long range? I mean isn't that what an 8 twist comes into play?
You AI-ing a .243, allows heavier bullets to stabilize in a 12? Thats hard to believe. How well do they stabilize? As well as lighter bullets.... ?
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-09-2013 at 07:58 PM.
The reason LR shooters use faster twists isn't because of the distance they're shooting but because they're using long high BC bullets that need faster twists to stabilize. There may be some custom bullets out there that are longer but at least amongst factory offerings, I'm not aware of any 25 cal bullets long enough to need anything faster than a 10t.what about long range? I mean isn't that what an 8 twist comes into play?
Thanks TC I was trying to think of a way to put that, and you could not have said it better.
And as for as the 105s go with the AI it spun them fast enough to go out to 500yards, we never tried but I am pretty sure they did not have enough rotational speed to make it much further than that, when it was just a 243 the most he could get was 3100 FPS, and when we AI it he could get 3400 FPS at max pressure, when you send a bullet faster it is not only faster FPS wise it is also faster rotational wise and that's what stabilizes a bullet.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I know about the long bullets need the faster twist... over a hundred grains like the 105 amax and the 107 GK's. BUt I see what you mean about the 10 handling all.... I haven't had no real great accuracy with my 10 .243 for all bullet weights with the exception of the 105's and up.. guess that's why I'm contemplating about the right twist for the right bullet weights. The .25-06 an exception with the 1:10.. it seems.. but I wouldn't mind having the edge with an 8 shooting 107 MK's. Chucks would be just as dead.... I wacked chucks with FMJ 8mm mauser.
I don't know of any barrel MFG that offers an 8 twist in 25 caliber, the least I have seen is 9 twist. and ordering a barrel is at least 6 to 8 months wait time.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
http://www.pac-nor.com/barrels/
Hey just wanted to thank you guys for all your input.... it helped tremendously. I doubt I will ever kill a woodchuck past 300 yards but who knows. That load with a 70 grain Blitz king Sierra seems to be a winner... out to 600 though..
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-09-2013 at 08:45 PM.
My expectations are no fliers.. 1/4 group or better with no fliers. 10 with 80-90 grainers or a 12 with 60 -70 grainers? And out to 500 -600 yards. Logic tells me 10 with 80-90 grainers and anything heavier would take an 8 twist futher out beyond 600... Am I correct? although you did say a 12 AI did the job with heavier.. what?.... 80- 90 grainers?a 10 twist will meet or exceed your expectations.
I am sorry to break the news to you but fliers are a fact of life, no matter how much you spend or do to prevent it,
WOW I see they make a 14 twist in 25 cal now were talkin.
Dean
Last edited by scope eye; 06-10-2013 at 03:30 AM.
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
Saw a Youtube vid about a guy who got excuse after excuse with his Pac-Nor order though... as far as fliers I shot a Model 70 .243 that shot no fliers.
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-10-2013 at 11:11 AM.
Fliers have a lot more to do with they ammo, than the rifle,
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
And let the debate begin....LOL
I shot my handloads I loaded for my mauser that shot really well out of the M70 and a possible flier, my friends rifle, when he shot my ammo he didn't get any.... he shoots better than me. 3 shots at 1/2 inch dead on at 100 yards. I really believe the quality of the rifle means alot and the shooter second. I didn't have to try hard at all with how I normally shoot. I believe the shot high was coz I didn't follow through. Like I said it was my loads in his rifle and I couldn't believe how much better it shot. And as far as Savages shooting great stock, I'm sure it will shoot alot better, with an aftermarket barrel. Like you said...
I should of held on to my model 10 with the McGowen 1:12... now that I have you guys for a resource I can troubleshoot my mistakes.but if me and you would of had a little chit chat, we would have made that barrel cry uncle and fix its non cooperating attitude, LOL
I consider me not following through the culprit of the shot a little high...
http://s649.photobucket.com/user/chu...32326455539624
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-10-2013 at 11:48 AM.
Take from those of us "in the know"....
It's the ammo. I pondered this for months & decided to stop cleaning the inside neck part of my brass. One quick pass with a brush and that's it. No more "shiny clean". The bullet was sticking to the brass when I shined it.
No more flyers. Usually.
'Scuse me while I whip this out...!
I apologize for being blunt but no, it's not correct. I'm pretty sure I know why you're uncertain about a 10t being sufficient but instead of me guessing at it, explain why you feel it's insufficient and then we can get to the bottom of it.10 with 80-90 grainers or a 12 with 60 -70 grainers? And out to 500 -600 yards. Logic tells me 10 with 80-90 grainers and anything heavier would take an 8 twist futher out beyond 600... Am I correct?
The 1:10... the 10 is a general twist to handle all bullet weights. The slower twists such as 11 12 14 and slower, depending on the caliber, handles lighter bullets depending weight for a perticular caliber. Fast twists 9, 8, 7, handles heavier longer bullets. This is what I understood from explainations form various barrel, bullet, rifle manufactures. But as I said above depending on the caliber twists rates vary. I've always seen 10 as a general twist for medium to big game hunting rifles and one good example was the 6mm remington with a 1:12 that couldn't stabilize heavier bullets verses the .243 winchester that is barreled 1:10 that handles heaiver bullets which caused the 6mm to fall off the wayside popularity wise.explain why you feel it's insufficient
So is the .25-06 is an exception with the 1:10 and are there other calibers that shoot well with the 10...?
Last edited by flatshooter; 06-10-2013 at 01:46 PM.
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