Loading below starting drop?

[Bark]

A trusted friend,gunsmith,and long-time reloader just put together some loads to try in a 110 we just rebarreled(12 twist) a couple weeks ago.Cal.308 / WW brass 2x / WLR / H4895 39.5 gn/ 150 SMK / 2.775.When I read the card and asked about the light drop and short OAL he stated that this load had proven accurate in many of his 1/12's and even in his 5R.Dunno,I'm kind of a big block in a small car kind of guy and generally start a couple gn's under max and go up untill it gets loose or shows pressure signs.As far as I find the starting drop for H4895 is 43gn-long way from 39.5.The light drop concerns me as I've never shot a "below start" load.I have 110rds given for break-in this weekend and feel a little anxious about putting them in the go-hole....opinions please. Old Grumpy Bark

[psharon97]

I generally use 150gr hornady sst IMR 4895 dropping at 45.1gr. Your load is actually kinda light.

[Bark]

Thanks for the quick reply 97.Yes,a light load indeed and that is my concern.I have shot literally thousands of rounds loaded by this gentleman over the years and his are the ONLY rounds I will put through my rifles that are not mine or factory.I don't know how to put this other than to say that I respect this man and do not want to offend him in any way but I don't understand this loading.Ultimately it's my finger on the trigger.My question here then is it safe to load to such a low pressure?I would have started around 45 and moved up.I'm asking here as I have come to this forum for accurate info for some time now-even before I got a Savage. Thanks

[BillPa]

I don't think H4895 would cause any problems at that weight, but its well documented reduced charges of "slower" powders may be, H4831 for example. There has always been arguments for and against that theory , but seeing one first hand kinda makes one a believer.

Some years ago a fellow was shooting a Mod 70 in 7x57 his regular hunting load of 4831 and a 150, then switched to a light load for some trigger time.

I was about 20 feet facing away when something hit me on the back and heard a strange "kaboom". When I turned around the 70 was scattered around in pieces, a piece of the stock is what had hit me. The receiver ring was split open like a banana, the right action rail sticking straight out, the scope was bent laying on the ground behind the shooter and the barrel was found about 10 feet in front of the bench. The gentleman was setting there stunned, blood running down his cheek from a large gash which required quite a few stitches to close Sometime later eight empty pieces of brass were the box, eleven loaded and one missing. It was probably the ninth round that unglued the rifle.

I wasn't involved with the investigation, but the action was sent to Winchester and deemed to be fine, except for being wreaked. Again I wasn't there, but some of his "light" loads were disassembled and found to be, if I remember the term used, a "few" grains under minimum starting load. I guess its possible the ninth one was mistakenly loaded with a lighter charge which caused the ruckus.

BTW, till the day he died he blamed the rifle and Winchester.

So, although I don't think the 4895 would be a problem its always wise never to load under the recommended starting charge weight. Manuals have a starting loads for a reason.

Bill

[Bad Water Bill]

Personally I have seen to many pictures and heard to many stories about MINIMUM loads that when i start working up a load I ALWAYS consult at least 4 manuals and start with the HIGHEST listed minimum. Someone more technical can explain hang fires or detonation.

Ain't purdy

[kleeber]

According to Hodgdon, H4895 is safe to use in reduced loads even down to 60% of max:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

Since they list 45.5 gr H4895 as max for 150 (Nosler BT) , your 39.5 is about 87% of max.
I'd shoot them without hesitation. The only problem you will have is that their point of
impact will probably be a few inches off at 100yds (high? I can never remember that...)
from any "big block" loads you work up later.

Kevin

[rjtfroggy]

Bark I load 308, 150hpbt sierra's with 41grn of imr 4895 and find this to be ideal for my rifle (10fp) 20" barrel and it is consistently well under moa @100.

[Blue Avenger]

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

[rjtfroggy]

Blueavenger I just checked that link and remarkably I am right on the money with all my loads rifle and handgun. I guess after 35 years of loading I learned something.

[Blue Avenger]

I'm not to free with my money but I use Steve's work as much as any of my books, So I gave him a book price donation.
He has a lot of powder combination's books do not list.

[Bark]

Many thanks for all the replys,much appreciated here.Very good link to the Hodgdon site on downloading with H4895, guess I missed that page.....me like'm big bang - heavy thump.Could be why there's not alot of right shoulder still in spec and I'm told all my parts are out of warranty after 50+years.Go figure.Looks like all should go well tomorrow with the light loads for breaking in the new tube.Again,thanks guys.This is a good place to be. Old Grumpy Bark

[okie2]

This is where I started on my 308 when I got it.
at the 39 grain load. It shoots so accurate at that
I have never tried anything else.
10 shot group in .625 at 100
It's a light load and really surprised me that it has no recoil at all.
This is a Savage 110 with 26 inch stainless barrel.


.308 WIN 2.800 OAL
168 GR. SIE HPBT
IMR 3031 39.0 grains 2507 FPS 43,900 PSI
IMR 3031 42.0 grains 2710 FPS 58,900 PSI

[okie2]

UNDER MINIMUM LOADS ???????????????
VERY DANGEROUS STUPID IDEA ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
why do you think they put minimum loads in load books ????????

[Bark]

Okydoky Okie.Not sure how to take your second reply,although I appreciate your shareing loads.As I said in original post,I respect the gentleman who loaded the 39.5 rounds and had difficulty doubting his choice in a good range round to break-in the new tube.In fact,they shot very well and even in a new barrel during break-in printed well under a min. with consistent ignition and little recoil.Perhaps go to the Hodgdon link http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf and have an interesting read. Old Grumpy

[pa_wdchuckhuntr]

I've used SR4759 for reduced loadings in a .270 I had but as a general rule avoid going below min. with other powders to accomplish the same thing. I had read that 4895 tolerated reduction well but I didn't have it on hand to try. One of the local IBS shooters was working on reduced loads for his .300 SAUM a couple weeks ago when I was at the range. Their are no horror stories involved just a lot of carbon on the cases. The feeling was that the pressure was not enough to seal the case against the chamber wall properly leading to the carbon escape.