Struggling with a new Savage.

[IUOE]

Guys I need some help figuring out what Im not seeing here.

A few months ago, in preparation for an upcoming Moose hunt, i bought a brand new Savage 111 Trophy Hunter package rifle in .300 Win Mag that came with a pretty nice Nikon Prostaff BDC scope and bottom line is I cannot get this gun to shoot worth a darn! It prints shots all over the place, high, low, left and right for no apparent reason and without any scope adjustments. At first i suspected a bad scope so I swapped it out with 2 other scopes...No change. Next I tried 2 different base and ring combinations, a leupold and a DNZ...No Change. Next came ammo, 180 gr Remington premier core-lokt, 180 gr Federal Trophy Copper, 150 gr Interlock Hornady American Whitetail. 180 gr Hornady Superformance Interbond and even a few hand loads with 180 gr Nosler Accubonds...No change.
So finally I box it up and send it back (minus the scope) to Savage hoping that its something they can fix. A month later i get it back with a brand new Nikon Scope mounted on top and a determination letter explaining that I must have had a bad scope and stapled to the letter was a nice little target with a 3 shot 1.3 inch group. AWESOME! Im back in business!

Today I head out to the range with my lead sled and bag of assorted ammo boxes. I shoot 3 shot groups with each one...NO CHANGE! Best I can do is 3.8" inch group with most being 4-5". All my shooting was done from a lead sled at 100 yd which is also how Savage's Range Master tested the gun.

Im stumped and need some help. What am I missing?

[JW]

Have you tried shooting a group without the sled?
Reason I asked is that I have tried using a sled a couple of times with no success
Jack

[scope eye]

I have a sled and went back to the bags, they are to short and the stock and barrel stick way to to far over the front rest, I lengthen the sled six inches, so the stock is right on they edge of the front rest, It helped a lot but I never get as good of groupings as when I use the bags, although I am glad that I have my sled, since I am always swapping scopes around and they are excellent, for looking down the bore and the scope with out moving anything to get back on paper, stick to the bags.

Tanks Dean

[JCalhoun]

What ammo did Savage get their group with?

Also, a lot the trouble sounds a lot like shooting technique. If it's not caused by the sled then I would suspect that you're flinching, worrying about scope eye, or not doing a good follow through.

[scope eye]

I have to go with the MOD on this one, have someone else take a couple of shots that will be a good tell tale sign,
for a second there I thought someone was worried about me, LOL

Dean

[yorketransport]

Like the others, I'd suggest trying it without the lead sled. If the recoil is getting to you, try using shooting vest with a a built in recoil pad or a sand bag between you shoulder and the stock. I've used a sandbag when working up 458 Win Mag loads from the bench.

Andrew

[fgw_in_fla]

Try a different shooter. Then a different ammo. Process of elimination.

[Werewolf]

Every time I have had a problem with shots going everywhere it was because SOMETHING was loose. Not trying to insult, but have you checked all your screws to make sure something isn't bottomed out? Scope bases, ring mounts, action screws. Is the recoil lug seated against the stock? Just throwing stuff out there.

[sharpshooter]

The Savage test shooters use a steel bench that incorporates a pneumatic vise, quite different from a lead sled. The sled is your problem.

[stangfish]

You: 300 win mag does not shoot tight groups.
Me: What kind of scope?
You: Nikon Prostaff BDC scope
ME:

This is a 223 scope at best. More like a rimfire scope. Try a Monarch, Elite, VX3, Weaver Grand Slam or even a Vortex Viper just get something a little tougher than that.

Savage testing may not allow the recoil to punish the scope like your field test.

[fgw_in_fla]

You: 300 win mag does not shoot tight groups.
Me: What kind of scope?
You: Nikon Prostaff BDC scope
ME:

This is a 223 scope at best. More like a rimfire scope. Try a Monarch, Elite, VX3, Weaver Grand Slam or even a Vortex Viper just get something a little tougher than that.

Savage testing may not allow the recoil to punish the scope like your field test.

Stang - This will be one of the very few times I'll disagree with you.
I ran a Nikon Prostaff 4-12x on my 25.06, .270 & 30.06. It's my back up / standby scope if one of my Vortex scopes goes in for a tuneup. It has never let me down. It survived the recoil of the 30.06 without a brake for 3 months of marathon '06 shooting.
True, it's a low end glass. But the only undesirable thing I can come up with is the reticle being too thick for over 400yds & a small target.

[BoilerUP]

A Nikon Prostaff should easily handle 300WM...Nightforce it isn't, but they aren't exactly junk either.

[stangfish]

A Nikon Prostaff should easily handle 300WM...Nightforce it isn't, but they aren't exactly junk either.

Im no snob but that is exactly what they are. That is my opinion and it is only worth $.02. The glass is good and clear, the design quality isn't. If it was, they would not have to make the Buckmaster or Monarch line.

I agree with the bags. I agree that flinching is possible. Have someone at the range load your rounds putting an empty case in there every now and then.

Try the prostaff on a proven shooter or try a better scope on the WM. Won't cost you a penny.

[Savage1920]

Guys I need some help figuring out what Im not seeing here.

A few months ago, in preparation for an upcoming Moose hunt, i bought a brand new Savage 111 Trophy Hunter package rifle in .300 Win Mag that came with a pretty nice Nikon Prostaff BDC scope and bottom line is I cannot get this gun to shoot worth a darn! It prints shots all over the place, high, low, left and right for no apparent reason and without any scope adjustments. At first i suspected a bad scope so I swapped it out with 2 other scopes...No change. Next I tried 2 different base and ring combinations, a leupold and a DNZ...No Change. Next came ammo, 180 gr Remington premier core-lokt, 180 gr Federal Trophy Copper, 150 gr Interlock Hornady American Whitetail. 180 gr Hornady Superformance Interbond and even a few hand loads with 180 gr Nosler Accubonds...No change.
So finally I box it up and send it back (minus the scope) to Savage hoping that its something they can fix. A month later i get it back with a brand new Nikon Scope mounted on top and a determination letter explaining that I must have had a bad scope and stapled to the letter was a nice little target with a 3 shot 1.3 inch group. AWESOME! Im back in business!

Today I head out to the range with my lead sled and bag of assorted ammo boxes. I shoot 3 shot groups with each one...NO CHANGE! Best I can do is 3.8" inch group with most being 4-5". All my shooting was done from a lead sled at 100 yd which is also how Savage's Range Master tested the gun.

Im stumped and need some help. What am I missing?

Well if they can do it you should be able to do it too. I agree with JCalhoun your probably flinching.

[IUOE]

Seems like 2 basic ideas here, the sled and the shooter. Im going to start with the sled before having to swallow my pride. I'm no world class shooter but I'm fairly certain i've been doing my part at the bench. I have certainly checked all the hardware and everything is lock tired. Barrel clearance is great as well as the tang that took a little sanding to obtain proper clearance. I'll be at the bench again next friday and I'll report back the results but in the mean time keep those thoughts coming.

[Szumi]

Seems like 2 basic ideas here, the sled and the shooter. Im going to start with the sled before having to swallow my pride. I'm no world class shooter but I'm fairly certain i've been doing my part at the bench. I have certainly checked all the hardware and everything is lock tired. Barrel clearance is great as well as the tang that took a little sanding to obtain proper clearance. I'll be at the bench again next friday and I'll report back the results but in the mean time keep those thoughts coming.

How do you shoot other centerfires? Do you have .308 or .30-06 that shoots well in your hands?

I've never shot off a lead sled. I have put a past shield over my shoulder shooting my .338 WM. Depending on the total weight of the gun some of the magnums tend to be something that the first 10 rounds are not so bad, the last 10 a struggle.

Did you try a different brand/weight of ammo? Are you comfortable with reloading ammo yourself? I have a 10FCP in .308 that is hardly a heavy recoiling rifle and I have a bunch of hunting ammo it does not like as in 3 moa. My first attempt at handloading averaged 1 moa or so.

Are the scope bases torqued down to spec, same for rings and rings to base. I use a Wheeler Engineering Fat wrench.

And as mentioned, having someone that is proficient at shooting hard kicking rifles try it is always a good control. I'm not worlds best shot by any means but I've spent a lot of time helping hunters get their rifles sighted in each year at my club just before deer season. Some rifles don't shoot better with me behind them but others have.

[ellobo]

No-one suggested to check if there is barrel contact with the stock. Do the dollar bill slid under the barrel its length to see if ther is contact. How often do you let the barrel cool between groups? A very warm barrel can move enough to contact the stock If with the dollar bill test you would have only .003 of clearance. Check that the mounting screws are tightened to 40-45 inch lbs then do the dollar bill test again.

El Lobo

[eddiesindian]

If you can find out what ammo they sent down the barrel for test firing, then I think it,ll serve as a a good tool for you

[IUOE]

If you can find out what ammo they sent down the barrel for test firing, then I think it,ll serve as a a good tool for you

Winchester 180 gr Ballistic silvertips. But would that really be that big of a difference from what I've ran down the barrel?

[JW]

Winchester 180 gr Ballistic silvertips. But would that really be that big of a difference from what I've ran down the barrel?

It could be
But before I tried to find some of that ammo I would still shoot the rifle without the sled
You would then be able to confirm whether or not the sled is the problem and go from there
Jack

[eddiesindian]

Winchester 180 gr Ballistic silvertips. But would that really be that big of a difference from what I've ran down the barrel?

yes, but id do as advised..shoot it with a bipod/bags
you know for a fact that Savage has found there 300,s favorite weight and speed of projectiles

[Russ 111]

The owner's manual says they use the Winchester 180 grain ballistic silver tip. sorry didn't realize someone had already published the kind of ammo.

[JCalhoun]

Getting back on topic.

If Savage produced a good group with that particular ammo you should be able to get similar results. Try shooting without the sled first to see if that makes a change.

[stangfish]

There was some question on how those groups are attained. If they have a guy shoot them off of a rest then it should be able to be duplicated. If it is clamped into a heavy vise then the human factor or the scope is not relavent.

[jonbearman]

If you decide that your shooting technique is getting to you ,I would suggest a muzzle brake.My friend has a winchester short mag wildcatted with heavy bullets and had a break put on this one at my bequest and when the rifle was finished we shot it.Not only can I shoot way under an inch but it feels like a .243 with the felt recoil.A good brake will not interfere with accuracy whatsoever.I implor you to do this and save your shoulder and shooting will be great fun with it instead of punishing.I have shot everything up to the 50 bmg without a brake in a heavy barrel gun for hog hunting and let me tell you that a good quality brake will end all your frustration and make your hunting trip way more enjoyable.I would call gre-tan and holland gunsmithing to see what their backlog is and believe it or not barnes bullet company doea them at a reasonable cost with good turn around time included.Dont worry about extra noise as you can wear walker quad muffs or something similar if the noise is to much for you and with that caliber it would be a good idea anyways.Look into it as it will be the best money spent and have a friend or somebody at a club near you shoot it first to see if the thing shoots good enough off bags or good quality rests before you spend the money.If it doesnt shoot good go to mcgowens barrel outlet and order a good barrel with a muzzle break and rest assured you will have a delightful rifle that will last a lifetime with excellent accuracy.I know its new and savage should maybe rebarrel it but it will be a production barrel all over again.I have replaced so many factory barrels and the first time around I wasnt happy about spending more money for something new,so now with what I know I do it all the time I get a lousy shooter and say the heak with warranty.