Considering a Forster Die Set

[beartooth91]

Anyone have experience with Forster dies?

My Lee Deluxe die set produces terrible runout, on my loaded, 30-06 rounds, when FL sized. The collet sized rounds are great, most around +/- .001". I believe the problem is a combination of the '06's long neck and the FL die squeezing the neck down a little too much. I have the Lee Deluxe sets for three other calibers (along with Redding Type S FL Bushing Dies) and don't see as much runout, in the other calibers, even with the FL die.

So, for the '06, I'm trying to decide between another Redding Type S FL Bushing die and a Forster FL die set. I'd prefer a one-step FL sizing solution, if possible. The bushing dies are not one-step as the fired to resized brass neck dia is greater than .005". I've heard great things about the Forster quality and their seating die. And, they offer the honing service, so, if the FL die squeezes the neck down too much; I can send it in and have .001 or .0005 honed off. On the other hand, the bushing die gives fine and adjustable neck dia control by selecting different bushings.......

Thoughts.....

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Consider the Forster Precision Bushing Bump Die. Sizes the neck pushes the shoulder back and doesn't mess with the body. Throw in a "body size" die after 3 or 4 firings or when the case starts getting snug on closing the bolt. You end up not oversizing the brass anymore than needed. Less trimming because the brass doesn't grow like full length resizing all the time. Longer brass life that way.
I've got BR brass that's been resized with the bump dies and hasn't needed trimming in over 25+ firings and still going strong.
As far as runout? Never checked. The bullets are all going in the same hole so why bother.

[beartooth91]

Consider the Forster Precision Bushing Bump Die. Sizes the neck pushes the shoulder back and doesn't mess with the body. Throw in a "body size" die after 3 or 4 firings or when the case starts getting snug on closing the bolt. You end up not oversizing the brass anymore than needed. Less trimming because the brass doesn't grow like full length resizing all the time. Longer brass life that way.
I've got BR brass that's been resized with the bump dies and hasn't needed trimming in over 25+ firings and still going strong.
As far as runout? Never checked. The bullets are all going in the same hole so why bother.

I've been using the collet dies, for the last 3 years, with good success. I measure everything and they do produce very low runout. However, I read alot of German Salazar's stuff and he offers compelling reasons to FL size everytime - with the die properly adjusted to only bump the shoulder .001-.002.
The Redding Type S FL bushing die would allow me to continue using the collet dies - resizing the neck with the collet die, then resizing the body & shoulder with the Redding die (and no bushing). Still a two step operation, though one has maximum flexability with this option.

[Luckus]

I am a Forster user and I highly recommend their products. I have two custom honed FL dies (6 Dasher, 257AI) and they work as advertised. Their seater dies work great at much less cost than Redding, which I hear is a copy of Forsters. They have been excellent to work with. Luckus

[trappst]

Why not save a little money and just buy the Redding body die? Neck size with the Lee collett die and bump the shoulders with the Redding body die.

Lots and lots of things that can cause run-out....the brass itself can be a big factor.

[beartooth91]

Why not save a little money and just buy the Redding body die? Neck size with the Lee collett die and bump the shoulders with the Redding body die.

I started out that way, but, the difference between the body die and Type S FL bushing die is about $27. I decided, a while ago, the way to go is to purchase the Type S FL die so I'd always have the options of 1) using it as a body die without the bushings, or 2) using the bushings.

Lots and lots of things that can cause run-out....the brass itself can be a big factor.

You may have not seen my previous post on the matter, but, I'm working on a project where I compare neck runout and loaded rounds runout between FL dies, collet dies, and Redding Type S FL dies, for my .223, .243, 7mm-08, and 30-06; the results of which will be published on this forum. My very prelim findings are that tension and the amount the neck is squeezed down has a big effect on loaded rounds concentricity. I'm finding that 10 rounds of collet sized cases (each caliber) generally give better runout than 10 rounds of conventionally FL sized cases. These are on the loaded rounds. Coincidentally - or not coincidentally, the collet dies keep the neck diameter approx .001-.002 larger than the Lee FL sized rounds. Though I've resized 10 cases of each with the Type S Bushing dies, I haven't loaded any up. However, a data point which may or may not mean anything is on neck runout I see a bit of gauge deflection with the collet sized cases, still under .001. The Type S bushing sized cases show almost no deflection on the runout gauge.

All said, I've read great things about the loaded runout with the Forster dies. Because they offer the service of honing the die, one should be able to achieve the neck diameter and tension desired, with the added plus of doing it in one operation.

But, I'm an accuracy nut and want what works best. One-step sizing is a desired - but not required - option.

[davemuzz]

My thoughts on this.......I've loaded my 6.5x55 Swede using the Lee Collet dies, and when the brass needed it I would F\L size it with a properly adjusted Lee die. The Redding body die is just a F\L die without the neck sizing "stuff" on it. I have Redding body dies, use 'em and like 'em a lot.

When I finally got to the point where I began to measure bullet concentricity, I realized I was only getting about 50% or perhaps a little better of concentricity of +- .001. Not a great %. So, I already had the RCBS Comp. seater die, and I was already turning necks just enough to get all of the neck brass even.....so, my thinking was it had to be my sizing "operation."

So, I laid out the cash for an RCBS Gold Medal Match Series Bushing Neck Sizer Die. Now I get about 98% of my reloads to a +- .001 concentricity. And this gives me a world of difference in teeny tiny groups at the range...especially at 300 yards and beyond.

FWIW

Dave

[Pilgrim]

I've used a Co-Ax press for 35+ years and Bonanza/Forster dies that long, as well. I own green, blue and all other colored die boxes, but the Forsters are my "go-to" for serious loading. If you want greater accuracy that the Forsters can give you, you'll probably need to get an arbor press.

[kelbro]

Got my first set of Forster dies when I built a 6BR. Nice dies.

[Texas Solo]

The Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater Die fixed all my woes. No runout and spot on consistency with OAL.

[kelbro]

I had no issues with the stock seater but added the micrometer later to work with different bullets. Makes it much easier and more accurate finding the right seating depth. Buy the micrometer seater first. It's cheaper that way :)

[beartooth91]

After several days of flailing on which way to go; I finally ordered the Forster Ultra Die Set from Midway. This is the two die set which includes the micrometer seating die.
Additionally, I have a new 22-250 and I've been experimenting with a standard set of Redding FL dies (not the Type S Bushing dies I normally go with). Suprisingly, they give pretty good run out, almost all under +/- .0015 with many around +/- .001. So, I bought the add-on VLD style micrometer seating stem for the Redding seater die.
Thanks for all your replies and insight.

[joe h]

I love Forster dies, when I switch calibers I'm depressed if Forster doesn't make dies for it.
I use all brands of dies, Forster is up there on the list.

[beartooth91]

Well, the Forster Ultra Die Set arrived today. First experience not so good. I set up the die, per the instructions. Lubed a once-fired 30-'06 case with Imperial Sizing Die Wax, as I normally do (including inside the neck), ran it up into the die.....and it stuck! My first stuck case...
So, the sizing die is going to Forster, tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll get an explanation as to why it stuck and what I can do different, next time, as I have no idea why it stuck.

[Luckus]

Did you get the stuck case out of the die? I have had two or three stuck cases in 35 years of loading, and the reason is, not enough lube on the case. I can't really fathom any other reason, but if there is, let us know. Luckus

[beartooth91]

No, the sizing die was sent back to Forster, with the case stuck in it. I agree the most likely cause is insufficient lube.....but, with Imperial Sizing Die Wax.......???? I've used this stuff, for the last 3 years and have never had a stuck case, until Thursday. I asked Forster to take a good, hard, look and let me know why it stuck. I am suspicious of the die / old Pacific C press combination though its never been an issue before. First case stuck, first time sized in a Forster die - that's the only thing which has changed.........

[beartooth91]

Well, I'm not all that impressed with the Forster FLS die. First, I'd sent it back, to have the stuck case removed, and asked them for an explanation of how it stuck and what they thought the problem was. I get it back with a note saying only "Here's a sample of our lube. It should work great for you". So, I lube the die inside with a q-tip and Imperial Sizing Die Wax prior to trying sizing. It worked, but, my first two cases had a big oil dent. After removing the excess wax, I sized up 36 '06 cases. Two notes:
First, I get about 15% of the cases have a bit more neck run out than what I'm used to, after resizing, over .001". I've never seen this in any of my other dies. Curiously, a second trip, though the sizing die, usually reduces the neck run out.
Second, the neck is squeezed down a bit too much, IMO. The Lee Collet Die gives a sized neck dia of .331". The Lee FLS die gives a sized neck dia of .330". The Forster squeezes them down to .327"! So, I know this is going to cause more work for the seating die in regards to getting the bullet to go in straight.
I do think the die quality is good. Imagine I'll have to send the FLS die back to Forster and have the neck honed out .003" and order an oversized expander ball.

[Luckus]

I have two neck honed Forster dies, and will probably get more. Have them hone it to either eliminate the expander button, or have the button just kiss the neck as it is drawn through. You want to eliminate working the neck as much as possible. Works for me. Good luck. Lukus

[beartooth91]

Despite the oversqueezed necks (IMO), the Forster Seater Die is spectacular. I loaded 15 rounds, 168 A-Maxes, and the loaded rounds are the straightest I've ever loaded. I had one which approached +/- .0015", two others which were right at +/- .001". All of the others were well under +/- .001", showing only a very slight deflection on the concentricity gauge.
Yes, the Forster Seater is pretty awesome.