Neck Size vs. Full length

**bower4311** · 03-07-2013, 03:38 PM

I have a Savage 11 Trophy Hunter XP in 260. I'm new into everything and have been full length sizing every time. I only have one gun. Should I be adjusting my die to only size the neck? If so how do I do that?

I'm using Norma brass currently and I think I have resized 3 times full length. Maybe I should only be sizing the necks. I'm not shooting too hot of a load and have not had to trim length yet.

Should I invest in the gauges that tell you how close your shoulder is?

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**stomp442** · 03-07-2013, 04:02 PM

Opinions vary on this but i generally only neck size once they have been fired in my chamber until they start to get tight then i will bump the shoulder back. If your die is set up to full length size now back your die off a full turn maybe two. If you soot the neck with a lighter its easy to see on your neck how far down your sizing. The general rule of thumb is go at least as far as the diameter of your bullet to give proper neck tension on your bullet.

davemuzz · 03-07-2013, 04:16 PM

Should you adjust your F\L die to neck size only? YES
How will you know when it's time to F\L size? After each neck size, simply take your rifle (check to make sure the chamber is NOT loaded and the magazine has NO ammo in it) and take each piece of brass (brass only, no primer, no powder and no loaded ammo!!) and just see if it chambers easy. If the brass doesn't chamber......then it needs to be F\L sized.

Dave

**brtelec** · 03-08-2013, 01:08 AM

For my target rifles I neck re-size only and use a Redding body bump die when it needs it. For my hunting rifles, in which I need reliable feeding from a magazine, I full length re-size.

**nubrun** · 03-08-2013, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by brtelec

For my target rifles I neck re-size only and use a Redding body bump die when it needs it. For my hunting rifles, in which I need reliable feeding from a magazine, I full length re-size.

Exact same process here. I typically can neck size 4 times before I need to body size.

**kelbro** · 03-08-2013, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by nubrun

Exact same process here. I typically can neck size 4 times before I need to body size.

About the same here.

n4ue · 03-08-2013, 02:27 PM

Good answers all. To make it easier, any well stocked Hardware store will sell machine bushings/washers. For example: my new .17 Hornet uses a .050" washer under the sizing die (RCBS) which makes it a 'neck' sizing die, without disturbing the collar adjustment.
Also, I NEVER set the FL sizing die the way the die companies recommend.....
I'm sure you can find all kinds of good info on the WWW using Google or Bing... for this technique.
I reload 29 calibers and been doing so for a looooong time. ha ha

ron

**Uncle H** · 03-08-2013, 03:19 PM

Ditto, the Redding three die set that has the body is great for this.

Originally Posted by brtelec

For my target rifles I neck re-size only and use a Redding body bump die when it needs it. For my hunting rifles, in which I need reliable feeding from a magazine, I full length re-size.

**bootsmcguire** · 03-08-2013, 05:52 PM

I know a lot of people out there don't like Lee Collet dies, but I have had the best luck using the Lee Collet Die set. If its a standard caliber that I am loading for then I get the Lee Deluxe set which is the Collet Neck Sizing Die, a full Length die, and a No-Crimp Seating Die. If its an Ackley Chamber or some other semi-wildcat situation, the I get the Collet Die Set and add in a Redding Body Die for bumping shoulders as needed.

n4ue · 03-08-2013, 06:10 PM

I have several Lee Collet die sets and the bullet runout is the lowest I have ever measured. Having said that, I put a small reminder on the RockChucker to turn the case 180 degrees during sizing... No big deal, but it 'works fer me'.
The ONLY problem I have with my Lee stuff, is the awful (IMO) lock rings that come with the dies. I replace them all with real, lock rings....
What's up with o-rings to 'lock' the settings in???? Not real positive......

ron

**brtelec** · 03-08-2013, 06:17 PM

All my neck sizing dies are Lee Collet sizing dies. Any calibers they do not offer in their catalog they have made for me in their custom shop. I use their factory crimp dies also and have had great consistency with them. They will custom make these for you also. I agree with you on the locking rings. I replace all the rings on my dies regardless of brand with the Forster rings because they work better with my Co-Axial press.

**bootsmcguire** · 03-09-2013, 12:38 AM

Glad to see more Savage Brothers like the L.C.D.s. I have had more trouble with Redding and RCBS lock rings than i ever have with the Lee. Put a wrench on the hex nut and bam, nice and snug.

**rinodods** · 03-09-2013, 01:24 AM

I like the lee collet dies a lot as well. I think though that a lot of people don't setup their full size dies properly and work the brass more than they need. It takes very little contact with a full sizer to get what you need. You only need to bump the shoulder 1 or 2 thousandths to ensure it functions and your neck will get sized as needed. You might see better runout with neck dies but a properly set full size die shouldn't hurt your brass. Look into something like the Hornady headspace guage set to help you get your die set correctly. Of course sometimes I'm just lazy and like the fact you don't have to lube the brass to use the collet dies on your necks. Occasionally you also run into a gun that doesn't do well with only neck sizing. I've got a 300wsm with a nice aftermarket barrel that gets very tight in the chamber after only one firing. It is just the way it goes. Shoots great but I gotta full length size.

**bower4311** · 03-09-2013, 11:51 AM

I'm thinking about getting that Hornady gauge. I'm trying to find my best option with so many out there it's hard to figure out what is best and most economical.

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iusmc2002 · 03-09-2013, 03:05 PM

There is a process called "partial resizing" which is exactly what n4ue described, but done a little differently. It doesn't use a washer (but that's a dang good idea!), and is accomplished by setting the die to only resize the neck about 2/3 of the way down, by NOT setting the die up per factory directions. Simply don't screw the sizing die down until it touches the shell holder, leave a very small gap and work from there.
If you use a spray type lube (not sure about the other paste/wax stuff because I don't use it), but you can see exactly how much of the neck you're sizing by how much of the lube/crud is scraped off the neck. Someone else mentioned using soot, from like, a candle, and that works too. I just didn't want to clean the soot out of my die. I usually use the L.C.D. for all my bolt guns, but I didn't want to pay extra for a neck-sizer for the 338-06. The partial resizing works well, and I have some 25-06, .270, 30-06 brass that have 5-6 firings after being resized to 338, and have had no problems with them. I don't remember how many firing the cases had prior to being resized, but they're all running strong still.

**brtelec** · 03-09-2013, 04:06 PM

One of the reasons I like to neck re-size only is that between that and annealing every 3 firings, I have been able to get a lot of use out of some rather expensive brass. Lapua and Nosler are very proud of their brass and I need to get all the firings out of it that I can.

**sharpshooter** · 03-09-2013, 07:42 PM

How many firings are you getting out of your Lapua brass?

**brtelec** · 03-09-2013, 08:50 PM

I am shooting a 338 Lapua and loading it at max and I am on the 10th firing with no sign of trouble. I was loading originally with Hornady brass and started losing primer pockets at 5 to 6 loadings. The 6.5/284 Lapua brass is in it's 14th loading. I have some Nosler brass in a number of calibers that have gone 15 to 17 so far. I find that the primer pockets are the failures I experience first.

**bower4311** · 03-09-2013, 09:19 PM

Even though I'm just getting into reloading, Nolser was the only brass my gun smith could get a hold of. So, I want to get as many firings as possible out of it. I have already full sized 3 times I think. But I'm not running real hot loads and I am still a few thousands under max case length without ever trimming.

**brtelec** · 03-10-2013, 01:25 AM

The more moderate you load, the better your case life. I just do not see the point in loading below max or close to it. If I am looking for different performance than the capabilities of a particular round I will shoot a caliber that gives me that performance level. It is part of my obsessive behavior. It is a curse I live with that has the upside of a lot of firearms!

iusmc2002 · 03-10-2013, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by bower4311

Even though I'm just getting into reloading, Nolser was the only brass my gun smith could get a hold of. So, I want to get as many firings as possible out of it. I have already full sized 3 times I think. But I'm not running real hot loads and I am still a few thousands under max case length without ever trimming.

If you want to extend the life of that brass even more, anneal it after 4-5 firings. You'll be able to feel the difference in the brass, the annealed brass FL-sizes much easier

**bootsmcguire** · 03-10-2013, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by rinodods

Of course sometimes I'm just lazy and like the fact you don't have to lube the brass to use the collet dies on your necks

That is a huge upside to the LCD's that I enjoy often.

**bower4311** · 03-10-2013, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by iusmc2002

If you want to extend the life of that brass even more, anneal it after 4-5 firings. You'll be able to feel the difference in the brass, the annealed brass FL-sizes much easier

I'm probably going to look into this to try to see what I can do, especially since I'm still working my loads up and whatnot. From my current research it's just hard to monitor what is too much or too little for the brass temperature.

iusmc2002 · 03-10-2013, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by bower4311

I'm probably going to look into this to try to see what I can do, especially since I'm still working my loads up and whatnot. From my current research it's just hard to monitor what is too much or too little for the brass temperature.

This video was posted on another forum I'm on, and it makes annealing a BREEZE! I first started doing it with the shell holder and spinner stud used for case length trimming from Lee. That was a slow process that made me have to wear a leather glove to get the hot case out of the holder. Another thing you can do, is use one of the heat pens (can't remember off the top of my head what they're called exactly) that come in different temp settings, so you mark the brass with it, and when the brass gets to the temp you want, the mark changes somehow. You can supposedly find them at welding supply stores and some hardware stores, this prevents you from overheating the brass which will make it harder than when you first started. I've never used the pen method, but it's just another tool for you to do it successfully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgD5D0Wzu-c

**earl39** · 03-10-2013, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by iusmc2002

this prevents you from overheating the brass which will make it harder than when you first started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgD5D0Wzu-c

Brass does not get harder with heat only softer but you can burn the zinc out of it changing its properties. Before someone says it quenching hot brass in water does not harden it as it does steel and iron.