Hello all, I have a problem with my model 12 FVSS in .308 26" barrel
My once fired cases will not chamber the gun with out getting stuck.
I been shooting my own loads with it since new. I've been using new Lapua brass that I've neck sized and trimmed to 2.005 and then loaded with 150 gr Speer's and Sierra's with 42 grains Varget .018 - 020 off the lands. All with no problem what so ever, and what seems to be at the lower end of the velocity range as well.
So now I load the same load in the same case but now they are once fired and bam, stuck case! I've never had a problem re shooting the same case in the same gun before? All I did to the case was neck size, trim, clean. The case appears to getting stuck and the very bottom of the case where the opening of the chamber starts.
When shooting the cases new they eject loose as can be with no pressure signs?''
I'd hate to think I would have to full length size these cases?
Anyone else ever see this?
I saw this once. I had my neck sizer adjusted to far down, and it was pushing the shoulder down a bit, causing a slight flair of the case where the shoulder starts.
So, make sure your neck sizer die is adjusted correctly, would be my first thought.
Sean
I have found that after a few firings of neck sized cases that I had to fl size due to hard chambering
You might try setting your fl die where it just bumps the shoulder back .001" to .002" and see if that helps
Jack
Id have to agree on the die setting.
Right there is your problem.Originally Posted by SuperKaos
Right there is your solution.
Do your self a BIG favor and throw your neck sizing die away.
I think that might be a bit of an overstatement... I neck-size only for my 6.5x47 and am going on 4 firings (Lapua brass) without a body resize and have no issues with chambering. If the bolt lift isn't sticky, or there aren't any pressure signs, I would check your neck-sizer adjustments. Start over with the adjustment following the manufacturers instructions.
I know that there are pretty strong feelings on both sides of the full length vs neck size debate and there are a lot of good points on both sides, but in my limited experience I have had good luck with neck sizing, and then body sizing every 4th firing.
You might "have" to body or fl size this first time, but if you barely bump the shoulders, I doubt you will see the same issue after the next firing. I believe it has to do with some chambers being slightly larger and the brass expanding further and more quickly to mold itself to the larger chamber. I've been neck sizing only for a while and think I'm losing consistency. Some cases will chamber very easily and other are slightly hard to close the bolt on. I am about to try to body size first bumping the shoulder's very slightly then collet neck sizing to see if that helps with consistency.
It is in the adjustment as stated above. Pat belives in FL sizing only and that is good in his case. Others belive in neck sizing only. I think both ways have their place. First thing to do is try the rechamber a piece of fired brass before you size it and then after you size it. If all is good move to the next loading step and try again. Somewhere you will find what is causing the binding. If it is a compressed load you could be compressing to much and causing the brass to swell or if crimping that could also also cause a slight swelling in the brass.
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32 (New King James Version)
That is a good point, I was assuming that the OP was referring to once fired from the chamber he is trying to reload for. Were these once fired from the chamber you are having trouble with, or from another gun?
He said they were only fired in his chamber. I was saying his chamber could be on the large side. There for the brass would have (just say) .008 headspace on new brass compared to .004 on another "tighter" chamber. This added .004 movement would cause the brass to expand much faster and possible stick tighter to the chamber walls. After he fl resized and bumped the shoulder .002 back then he wouldn't see the need to fl resize on subsequent firings because the brass was not moving as far (.002 compared to .008).
I understand your point now. Just out of curiosity, if this was the case wouldn't the bolt lift be tough? If the bolt lift is normal, then I can't understand why closing the bolt would be tough (assuming no re-sizing is done and just putting the case back in the chamber). I'm no expert though.
I know for a fact that my savage has a tight chamber. Ive collet sized once fired before and after about 2-3 fireings on them, they will fit tight. I did my own research and found out that I didnt gain any accuracy from collet die sizing. I did however have to use a small base full lenght die for my tight chamber. I havent had a problems sinse.
IMO....your problem is the die setting
Get yourself a headspace comparator so you can measure and keep track of how much it's changing over time; this should show you clearly what's going on and you can also measure how to set/bump the shoulder 2-3 thou when FL sizing. Every gun is different. On my 6BR it gets tight if I don't FL size every time . Other rifles will can run several loading cycles with Lee Collet Neck die with no problem.
All bolt lifts are tough on a Savage. lol
Yea but if you run a hot load you have to karate chop the darn thing.
I agree. You are probably sold on the neck size only is the most accurate way. It may or may not be the case. Get a set of headspace comparators and adjust your full length die to set the shoulder back .002-.003 and do an accuracy comparison, then you will have the answer. Lots of good answers here. Good Luck Luckus
My Cabelas Savage 16 FHVSS .223 has this same problem. The fired case before and after neck sizing jams 1 out of 3 tries on chambering. The jam point is just above the case head and appears (at least in my case) to be caused by the cases bulging on one side at this point. As indicated above, I can get them chambered about 2/3 of the time. I've seen this with the Hdy and PMC brass I've tried and its been a problem since day 1. I'm able to successfully collet (neck) size on my four other Savages, but, cases for this rifle have to be FL sized. It doesn't cause me accuracy problems - the rifle shoots under 3/8" groups with the right loads. I FL size only enough to bump the shoulder back .001-.002".
WoW! Lots of good advice and tips to work with here, greatly appreciated!
Well it's obvious that I have to full length size at this point.
So Monday I did manage to order a FL die from Midway. It'll be in today however, I'll be out to town 'till Friday. Anyway, I'll be able to start back on it Friday and test fire it on Saturday if the weather holds out.
With the conditions of all the rounds fired and the given advice here I'm leaning towards the die depth adjustment. But in the end, the findings maybe totally different the expected?!!?
Reason why I'm leaning on the depth adjustment? Because I have fired all 100 of the Lapua cases (new) in many different temperatures and all have ejected easily. The bolt lift and slide has always been the same and operating it with NO round in it. Many times I've even left a case in the chamber for 5 to 10 minutes after firing. Always ejects normal...
If it's not the depth of the die, it may very well be (with given advice here) that the chamber wants the cases FL sized every time or every 2nd, 3rd or 4th time. I really hope that's not the case...
I will order a head space gauge as well so I know everything that's happening the cases fired.
Thanks again to all I'll let you know what I find after testing this weekend.
Was the case stuck after firing? In other words--was there notable resistance to closing the bolt? I had a primer that didn't seat quite right--and had the brilliant idea that I should just chamber it (without a bullet) and fire it in order to decap the case. The case got stuck--even with just the primer being fired. I'm guessing that the improperly seated primer was enough to cause irregular headspace alignment which in turn may have contributed to the stuck case. Just a possibility--not saying that's related necessarily.
[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]Shooting--it's like high-speed golf[/COLOR][/B]
you,ll figure it out. your on the right path.
Savage,s are known for having tight chambers which in reality isnt a bad thing.
When I started load development for my Savage, I knew I had a tight chamber after I fired a factory rd out of it and took mic readings from the spent case.
be as it may, I did use a Lee Collet sizer die that I altered the mandrel on to have a little tighter fit at the case mouth. the rds fired perfectly but as I mentioned before, I found out that I didnt gain or lose any consistant accuracy using a small base full lenght die. Collet sized cases (to me) swell everytime you fire them and eventually start having tight fits.
good luck
When you neck size don,t forget to lube the inside of the neck. Without lube you can easily stretch the shoulder forward just enough to cause difficult chambering. I use one shot inside the neck.
If one neck sizes, usually you would also get a body die. The body die will restore the taper and bump the shoulder back without the rather extreme forming that a FL die usually does to the neck. The first time I did any FL resizing for my AR I was shocked how much the neck diameter was reduced before the slug was pulled back through. Now if one obtains custom dies which only reduce the neck "enough" it would be a different story but I was personally not happy at all what I saw with my dies (Lee, Hornady and Forster).
Just look for a body die for your caliber and you will be all set. You may only need to use it every few firings though.
Last edited by Westcliffe01; 03-10-2013 at 11:37 AM.
check one of "once fired" cases right after you neck size and before doing any further loading. make sure also your seating die isn't crimping.
Not limited to savage. I have a Remington 700 AAC-SD in 308 that I just got and the chamber is tight and I Have issues with my LC brass. Think I will run them through the roll sizer and see if that helps. The issue on mine is at the base as when I colored the base with a sharpie it was all gone when I removed it from the chamber and there is brassing on the bolt face.
If the chamber is eccentric to the bore then I can see how you are unlikely to re-chamber it with the right orientation. If that is the case though, the shoulder should show runout if you checked it on a concentricity gauge. I would have to believe this is more than a few thousandths though.
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