Reply With QuoteI have had this exact issue when shooting at a fleeing coyote. Usually get a bang flop out to 200 yds if they are broadside and not moving, matter of fact I hate the .204 and never shoot it anymore.
So I had a 16 in 204. Loved the gun for puffing birds and such. But when it comes to coyotes I had issues. I reloaded Hornady 32, and 40gr V-Max's, Berger 35gr HP's and Dogtown's. Pushing the 40's at 4100 and the 32's at 4400Fps from my crony, I couldn't kill a yote.
Let me say out here the BIG yotes are around 40Lbs, with most of them in the 25-35 range. I have shot in the face, big middle, and everywhere in between. Ranges varied from 20 yards to about 100.
In five different cases Witnesses watched as the coyote did "OH!" hunch, but then ran off and dissapeared in the sage some 50-100 yards off.
The gun was accurate, but not a coyote killer, anyone else have this issue, or am I the proverbial "one"???
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I have had this exact issue when shooting at a fleeing coyote. Usually get a bang flop out to 200 yds if they are broadside and not moving, matter of fact I hate the .204 and never shoot it anymore.
I have heard this before from a lot of people, but I have Killed 6 with my .204 @ 5 to 150yds and only one did any flopping at all. The rest just dropped. The 1 that did flopp around was shot at 5yds in the bread basket, he still died just not as quick as I wanted.
I loaded 40gr Bergers in mine at around 3900fps.
Steve
i have only dropped one yote with my .204 before i sold it. was very happy with the rifle and round....shot the yote just under 100 yards broadside through the chest, just behind the shoulders. it bolted 10 yards before dropping dead. it literally sucked the liver out of a massive hole on the opposite side. and this was a big dog...easily over 40 lbs. size of a large lab. needless to say i do think though it is a round better suited for shooting smaller game, for high accuracy and explosive effect this round has on its targets.
You might want to check your chrono....seems a bit high. I have a 204 that sits in the safe.......Pushing the 40's at 4100 and the 32's at 4400Fps from my crony, I couldn't kill a yote.
4100 seems highOriginally Posted by trappst
My sons 204 with 40 V-Max Hornady with BLC2 at 3900
He has also had 204 yote issues, has had a couple get up and run off after a good shoot??
But when at dog town, it's the gun to have!!
Has anybody tried Bergers 50 grain or Hornadys 45 grain bullets for coytoes?
unless you have an aftermarket barrel you wouldn't be able to shoot the 50grs Bergers.
My 204 never had issues killing coyotes but IT JUST DIDNT PLANT THEM. I consider the 204 right in line with the 223 in killing power on coyotes except, the 223 has the options of heavier bullet selections.
In years past, Ive had issues with the 22-250 and 40gr bullets not killing coyotes very effectivly. As soon as I moved up to the 50gr bullets all my problems went away and coyotes dropped like hit with a slegdhammer. Even the 223 with 40gr bullets gave me issues but heavier bullets worked effectivly.
Im under the opinion that 40gr bullets are just not enough oooommmph on coyotes. If the 204 had a 9 twist from the factory it would do much better at killing coyote sized critters. My opinion is the 204 is ideal for jack rabbits and maybe fox/bobcat.
We have to understand that the coyote is a tuff hombre. Its the only animal that doesnt give us clear shots at the heart.
Notice how the heart on a coyote is placed directly between the shoulders on a broadside shot. Getting a bullet into the heart without hitting bone is near impossable. We need tuffer bullets than what the 40gr bullets are designed for.
[img width=310 height=450]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/hunting%20photos/anatomy_coyote_front_I.jpg[/img]
Even a full frontal assult on a coyote has a lot of meat and bone needing penetrated in order to make effective heart shots.
Its my opinion that these little critters are built for war. We need to use effective weapons and ammo on them. Thats not saying a 17hmr wont kill coyotes (Ive done it twice) but coyotes can take a lot of punishment, were best advized to arm ourself effectivly or plan nothing more that perfect shots on them.
Coyotes are TUFF!!!! Tougher than deer in many respects, get yourself a good 22-250 and a good 50gr bullet (or larger bullet). Even the 223 with the proper bullet will knock coyotes flat immediatly but there is a fine line between good killing power and overkill with extream pelt damage. For me, the 50-55gr bullets is where the fine line is drawn. I prefer the 50gr nosler BT's.
Berger recommends a 9 twist for the 50 grain
The Hornady 45 grain have a lower BC of .245?? Has anybody tried them?
The 40 grain v-max is .275 I think?
I agree with Outlaw, the 22-250 with 50 grain pills is very effective. I would just like to find something for the 204?
I'd love to see Barnes come out with a TSX bullet in .204" diameter......not sure what weight/length it would have to be though. A fast twist barrel might be a must have.
I'm currently working on the 50g Berger in my 9 twist Shilen 20 Practical AR-15. I just got started with it and the 35g Berger so I can't really give ya much info. Hoping to have it runnin' later this winter for those calling sets in the thick stuff.
...+1....Now I got in trouble for saying the .204 was designed for PD's, Jack's, Ground squirrels & Groundhogs...awhile back...lol..But I'm sticking to it... 8)...
Well thanks for the thoughts guys, I was hoping it wasn't just me... Guess I'll have to stick with my 22-250 and not a 204.
FWIW: My chrony is fine, that paticular gun just didn't show pressure as early as some. The 40gr. load had over 31Gr. of BL-C(2).
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Ive been preaching the same thing but everyone who's ever killed a coyote wants to dissagree even though theyve never actually done it. When I hit a coyote, I know emediatly if the cartridge is going to be "effective" for the job. I was not impressed with the 204 while coyote hunting.
...+1....Now I got in trouble for saying the .204 was designed for PD's, Jack's, Ground squirrels & Groundhogs...awhile back...lol..But I'm sticking to it... 8)...
Im not saying the 204 wont kill coyotes, Im just saying that there are better cartridges and in my opinion, I would use a 223 on coyotes before I would switch back to the 204. Since Ive got the Middlesteds, I dont see these problems anymore.
You don't think it is a combination of too much speed and the .204 size bullet do you? Seems like you are really pushing those bullets fast for as close as your shots are.
Corey
IMHO - I think the 204 varmint bullet doesn't penetrate before expanding?
I agree 100% with Outlaw. I use a 22-250 with Nosler 50 grain bullets to hunt coyotes. It really is a lethal combination to hunt them with. Every coyote except one I have shot with the 22-250 dropped in there tracks and never moved. The one that didn't drop right away made one spin and then went down. I tried the Nosler 50 grain after repeatedly reading posts from Outlaw stating how deadly they were on coyotes out of a 22-250. In my opinion the 22-250 and Nosler 50g bullet are one of the best combinations for killing coyotes and also producing very little fur damage. I use 36.0g of Varget powder with these and the accuracy is awesome.
I can't believe half of what I'm reading about the .204 not doing a job on yotes. I have over 45+ kills with my Tac.20 (essentially the same as .204 Ruger, but was developed first) I had this rifle made with this intention only to hunt coyotes, and it has let me down ONE time out of God who knows and I BLAME MYSELF!!. I've had only ONE stinking coyote run after being shot and he ran a full circle approx. 25yds and fell dead pretty much where he got shot which lured the othe yote out in the open too. Bang Flop two dead.
Folks Ive shot numerous wild hogs with my 20 caliber using 40 Bergers at 3950 fps and more deer than I can remember. Deer flop to the ground with neck shots. NEVER lost a deer (knock on wood) with the 20 cal. and have lost 1 hog due to me taking a trotting facing me shot, very big pig, doubted if I even killed it.
Just hard for me to believe that ya's 204 Rugers aren't doing the jobs, When I've had nothing but great praise for mine and gets the job done when I need it too.
Wow, I have to agree with tbeasly. I have yet to lose a coyote with the 204 and only one with my Mach IV. I will say that I don't get as many Bang, Flops but they usually spin and drop or go maybe 10-15 yds. Heck, this is with 32vmaxs which are supposed to be terrible on coyotes.
One thing I have noticed throughout this post is I don't see any distances people are shooting coyotes at using the .204. I'm by no means a gun specialist but I believe the lighter the bullet is the less of an impact you have further down range. I would be very interested in seeing a comparison chart with the .17, .204, .223 and .22-250 ballistics. I believe there was a post on here along time ago trying to determine the ft. lbs. needed to kill a coyote. I personally believe that is what determines whether a coyote runs 50 yards or drops in its tracks. The only reason I brought the .17 into this is because a friend of mine shoots one and he knows he is very limited in the distance he can shoot coyotes and effectively kill them.
Gotta love the debate over the terrific twentys
OK, I do love my 22-250 on Coyotes, but as it is a long action gun....
I got a chance to get another Accu-trigger 204 for slightly more than nothing. This time I will try some bergers I still have, and slow them down, to see if I can get some satisfaction. If not, I will hock the 204 tube and bring over my 22-250. The Coyote derby is the first weekend in Feb, so Hopefully the 204 will work.
I'll keep you guys posted, maybe I had a fluke barrel???
Stay tuned.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I'd guess that MOST people who complain about a certain centerfire caliber not being enough gun to kill coyotes are either gut shooting them or selecting poor performing bullets for the job, or both. Just about any centerfire bullet will get the job done if you place it where it counts.
That said, based on what hunters have told me in person, MOST aim WAY too far back. That results in gut shots or clipping the back of the lungs if you're lucky.
If you've shot several coyotes with the 204 and they all run off, the blame can ONLY be placed on you the shooter. You're not hitting the vitals either becaus you're missing or aiming at the wrong spot, or you're using a highly explosive bullet. Do 5 minutes of basic research and figure out which bullets are not recommended, then do 5 more minutes of research and figure out where the vitals are.
Me? I use a 223 with a 40gr Vmax and almost every single one is dead before it hits the ground. I credit careful shot placement and marksmanship. Couldn't ask for a more efficient caliber or bullet.
I wasn't lucky enough to be the one who shot these, but I copied this from another website. These were all shot with 35gr Bergers in a 204 Ruger.
[img width=600 height=450]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/Yotecallr/204Ruger35grBerger-1.jpg[/img]
...Yup...The bullet of choice is the 35gr. Bergers with 27.2grs of Benchmark....I just don't like the plastic tips for that kind of work...
*Warning, long post*
Wow, this post hits close to home for me. I have had my vlp 204 for a bit over a year now and have shot 38 dogs with it. Now, my western dogs sometimes don't go over 30 lbs and usually anything over 30 lbs is going to be a "large" male. With that being said, I have shot 4 ranged 400+ yard yotes that have both dropped in their tracks and run a 100 yards or so and fall dead. I have never had one drop and get back up though. I exclusively load 39 gr sierra blitzkings with bl-c2. I made a shot about 2 months ago on a dog that was 675 yards out. The dog was far enough away that I had to range a cow at 570 and then guesstimate the rest. I guessed the dog to be at about 600 yards. I took the scope up 6 minutes which is my 500 yard zero (from a 200 yard zero) and held about an inch over the fur....poof, I missed. The dog ran off some more yardage and stopped broadside. I now held approximately 10 inches over the fur and let one go. The dog went into a dead sprint and I figured another miss. The dog ran about 100 yards and stopped and laid down. Now this dog is out in the middle of a huge span of pasture/meadow and it seemed like a weird place to hide after being shot at twice. I watched him in the scope as he looked around and then just put his head down. I actually got up and started whistling at him to see if he'd get back up, but he didn't. I had to build a rock cairn where I shot from to be able to range the portion of the cliff that I was laying on. Prone shot with a sandbag. When I found where he was standing when I hit him, I ranged the rock that I had shot from. I actually dissected that dog looking for the bullet, all I found was a tiny wound channel (20 cal?) that went through part of the lower shoulder muscle, missed the bone, and went right through the bottom of the heart. No exit wound but I could not find the bullet, the whole chest cavity was filled with blood and I couldn't find a thing. My next closest shot (with the 204) to this one is 412 yards. The great thing about yote hunting is that after making this shot I have missed dogs at 100, 150, 200 or whatever else. All I can do is shake my head and wonder what the hell I did wrong.
Sorry for the long post, but I am a 204 believer. Shot placement is everything with the smaller calibers.
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