Reply With Quotefor some reason i picture you smiling when you asked that question.
Should I expect better than 1-1/4 in groups at 200 yards from a 110 in 06 with cheap glass and factory ammo?
for some reason i picture you smiling when you asked that question.
I was hoping for one ragged hole. That'll probably never happen with factory ammo and without better glass, I'm assuming.
I'm not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic or not. One ragged hole @ 200 yards is a fine achievement with any factory rifle IMO let alone one with factory ammo and without quality optics.Originally Posted by defcon9
Well, I could see a little parallax effect, so I'm thinking an AO would tighten the groups a little.
No sarcasm intended.
I take it you're saying I should be satisfied with the 110 performance?
Seriously? You should be very happy with those results. Most people would be happy with 2-2 1/2" @ 200 from a rifle as you described it.
I've seen folks posting about one hole groups at 200 yds and 3" or something groups at 1000 yds, and being new to bolts, I didn't really know what I should expect.
Thanks for your input.
No problem. On the web everyone is a marksman. You just need to turn on the BS filter to get through them all.
FWIW, I DO shoot one hole groups regularly. Then I screw them up by shooting again!
lol
Above says it all.No problem. On the web everyone is a marksman. You just need to turn on the BS filter to get through them all.
With my hunting rifles, I am happy with 1 1/2" groups at 200 yards.
With saying the above, with my F Open rifles, I can hold sub 1/2" groups at 200 yards "most" any day. Somedays I can do it at 300 yards.
The above statement, if someone posted a statement like this on this site, I guarantee you it would be a long thread. And I am being nice about it.I've seen folks posting about one hole groups at 200 yds and 3" or something groups at 1000 yds, and being new to bolts
There is a few very good shooters out there and sometimes it can be done. But it's not the norm, it's on a special day when everything falls exactly in place. And it's done with a custom built rifle with the finest components available. Then your personal skills and overall conditions such as weather, wind, etc., must all be right.
Last edited by Dennis; 01-07-2013 at 02:56 AM.
Not sure where I saw it. I know it wasn't marlinowners. I'm not a member anywhere but savageshooters and marlinowners, but I look at other forums. Probably one of those.
What's a F Open rifle?
You have several different class's. Benchrest, F/TR, F-Open. These classes use custom built rifles. You will see a few Savage rifles in the matches. In fact, at one match I believe 1/2 the rifles on the line were Savage F class rifles.
F-Open is usually long range out to 1,000 yards using most any rifle. You can shoot an open class rifle in a 600 yard match.
F/TR is limited to 223's and 308's, 600 yards.
Probably search on Google both F classes and you should find plenty of information. Or find a match close to you and go see what it's all about.
You might get hooked.
Like the others said, only the good groups get talked about and posted. Have I a 1" group at 300 yards? Yep, but not everytime. It was'nt that many years ago that folks were spending big money to get 1" groups at 100 yards so 1 -1/4" at 200 is extremely well.
Last edited by Jamie; 01-07-2013 at 09:26 AM.
More shooting, less typing.
Couple things to remember:
1. Everyone on the interntet is an expert/professional (in their own mind)
2. As such, all of them can shoot 1 hole groups at any distance out to 3 miles (even with their 22LR)
Your rifle is essentially shooting 5/8 MOA at 200 yards with horribly inconsistent factory ammo and cheap glass. With a properly worked up handload I wouldn't be surprised if it would consistently shoot 3/4" groups @ 200 yards. In my view, when shooting a bone stock gun with factory loaded ammo anything under 2 MOA is acceptable, under 1.5 MOA is good enough, and under 1 MOA is excellent.
MOA is roughly 1" @ 100 yards or 2" @ 200 yards or 3" @ 300 yards (etc.)
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Just trying a couple weights of quality ammo first could shrink your group. And you could find boattails better beyond 200 yards. There is nothing wrong with good factory ammo. Hornady Superperformance can outperform reloads at times. When I got my first custom barrel 223 wylde I purchased 40, 40, 50, 52, 55, 60, 62, 65, 68, 69, 75, and 77 grain ammo including the Sierra Gold match HPBTs. For 100 and 200 yards I shot the BH 52 grn match ammo best, or I should say the rifle liked it best. The manufacturer said for 500 yards to use Federal Sierra Gold HPBT. at 69 grns guarranteed sub MOA. That is if you are good enough to let the barrel do it's thing.
Cheap optics is relative. You can get nice optics ( Nikon, Weaver, Vortex) for $200-300 range now, at least in the 3-9 power range. There are guys who spend $1500-2000 for their optics.
I have shot sub MOA at 200 yards using a $79 Simmon (6-18x50) that I got on sale for $59. Not nearly as nice as my Nikon, but I am old and needed the extra power to see where the bullets were hitting. Of course that was with low wind at my back. Wind is what seperates the great shooters from those of us who try. Now if your cheap optics was the Bushnell Banner, you can do much better. The Savages that come with the Nikons are good to go.
But I was using Black Hills reloaded Match ammo, not boattail but more accurate at 100-200 yards than the boats. Savages are by far the most accurate rifles out of the box.
Have you ever checked the bullet/neck runout on any factory loaded ammunition. Well, I have - on a number of different brands/types (even Hornady Superformance Match) - and I've yet to find a single round with less than 0.005" runout and most run in the 0.010 to 0.015" range and some even being as bad as 0.025". Bullets can't fly straight when they're not seated straight.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
if you can shoot moa at any distance -you & your rifle are doing good
reloading will allways help shrink groups
a simple ladder test will tell you when YOUR rifle is feeling good vibrations
unfortunatly not everyone is completly honest about everything - especialy shooting abilty
when they say -all day long - what they really mean is "once upon a perfect day"
most shooters would be pleased with a rig that shoots moa
most rifles can shoot better than the shooter- especially if its a Savage!
this is a great place to learn about all things -fireams -shooting -reloading ect.
the correct load, a light trigger, learning shooting disipline, ie B-R-A-S-S- & lots of practice- should lead to 1/2 moa groups with a Savage IMHO
One more thing: Find more of that factory ammo from the same lot. I am a darn good hand loader and I will tell you that will be tough to beat. Buy up as much as you can of that lot # and be content that you have a winner on your hands.
check the records at places like the original 1000 yd benchrest club at williamsport pa.
you will find that 3" is probably slightly better than the current world record.
remember also that a group of 3 something held the record for 14 years untill about 3 years ago.
but alas, now we have all kinds of guys on sites like this who can do better with factory rifles and ammo.
aint the internet wonderfull?
They shoot F/TR at 1000 yards as well.
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Thanks everyone for your replies.
They have been very informative.
Sorry I wasn't able to join the conversation, as long work hours and home maintainance have consumed the past 2 days.
Nevertheless, my smallest group was with 150 gr Win Power-Points, and I don't even know for sure where I got them.
I plan to look through reciepts in an effort to aquire more of that lot#.
Thanks again for all your replies.
I think 1-1/4 would please me just fine. Especially with factory ammo. I also have a savage 110 with a budget quality scope. I use mostly my own loads in mine however I have been able to get just under an inch at 100 yrds with Win. 180 power points. I would say any rifle shooting 1-1/4 at 200 yrds. is great.
I believe the current record at 1000 yards is 2.814" with a 10 shot group scoring 100-4x. It's been a while since I looked it up but it's something like that, only one to break the 3" barrier done with a 300WSM in Williamsport.
1 ragged hole at 200 is tough. i only have one savage that will do that with factory ammo. its even printed same holes at 200 at times.its a btcss 204, i bedded.recrowned. i have a weaver super slam on it. it just loves the hornady ammo. i usually load sierra blitz kings for it and it will punch same hole at 200 when conditions are right.
"89" , I am pretty sure that record you mention was shot with what I call a "shooting machine", not a sholder fired rifle ??
Meaning, it is a mechinism that sits on a heavy, dial adjusted base, has a water cooled barrel, etc. ???????? Jim
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