Reply With QuoteI would losen the two stock screws and try to reajust while tighting, or
or take the barrel and action off and sand it to fit, I would not send it back for that.
Tanks Dean
Was looking closely at my new Model 111 LRH and found that the stock is touching the left side of the barrel while looking down the business end. Did the dollar bill test for a free floated barrel. Fail. Won't slide down. Is this gonna be a problem with accuracy? I got this rifle specifically for long range accurate shooting.
It's a big heavy 26'' barreled gun but I think the barrel should still be free floated, right? My other two recently acquired 22'' barreled Savages are.
Should I contact Savage? What would you recommend?
I would losen the two stock screws and try to reajust while tighting, or
or take the barrel and action off and sand it to fit, I would not send it back for that.
Tanks Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
3/4" hardwood dowel + some 40-60 grit paper will make that a quick job. Is it a laminated stock ? If it is plastic, you need at least 1/32 clearance and 1/16th is safer considering the stock flex when the fore end bears the weight of the rifle. If it touches under any circumstances you will get flyers.
If loosening the action screws and readjusting the stock does not work, I am curious if the stock warped when it was taken out of the mold. If you have a yardstick(i'm dating myself) or a straight edge long enough, check both sides of the barrel channel to see if they are the same. If the side that is touching is concave you may be able to relieve the stress or bend it back to provide the needed clearnce. I have done it both ways.
+1 on using a some sand paper to make sure the barrel floats from front of recoil lug to stock tip. Check the tang area to make sure it is also floated.
Hey Westcliffe! Hope you had a Happy Holiday. As in the recent past, your answers and adviceare detailed and specific. And as always, extremely helpful to us new guys! Thanks man. BTW, the only Flyers I like are from my old home town of Philly and think they're on strike anyway. lolOriginally Posted by Westcliffe01
Stock doesn't look warped from the outside. Wow...does that really happen? Just uneven around the bottom of the barrel at the very front. Seems to be touching only on the left side. Man, mabe it is warped on the inside. My sand job should be the remedy.
Thanks to you and the other guys here for helpful replies.
I have a tip that may work for you. I recently needed to turn a standard synthetic hunting stock into a stock that would accept a varmint contour barrel. I did this by putting my turkey fryer pot full of water on the heat until it started boiling. Then I placed the fore end of the stock in the pot and let it boil for about 5 minutes. I then forced a large wooden broom handle about 1" in diameter into the length of the barrel channel from where the tang sits out the front of the stock and wrapped it with duct tape to hold it until it cooled. When I was done I had a perfectly straight wide barrel channel without removing any material. If you didn't know I did it you would think it came from the factory that way. I went from a 30-06 pencil barrel 110 long action to a model 10BA .308 barrel and it now fits perfectly with no contact.
Good luck
A good wife and a steady job has ruined many a great hunter.
What an interesting idea. Thank you. I know you said it worked fine for you. My concern would be putting the fore end of the stock in boiling hot water....does it have any unwanted effects like possibly ''warping'' the overall integrity of the stock? I guess what I'm asking is, does it effect the outer part of the stock or cause swelling after it cools?
Last edited by Roger SS; 12-29-2012 at 12:00 AM.
I take a deep well socket and sand paper to mine..You can switch sockets to get basicly to
size you are after..I like to have mine floating enough to run a business card the full
length until it touchs the recoil lug...
That hot water trick is an old one..I have heard of that befor only with plastic stocks.
Only the tallked of using steam,such as you would when bending lumber...to each his own...
Do you know of any unwanted consequenses of using the hot water method? Yes, it is a composite synthetic stock. (Plastic/rubber)
I don't see of anything that can happen to it with the hot water other than when you force the broom handel into the channel it might make it look like the sides are bulged out of shape...If you have enough material to work with I think I would try to sand it out some..Good luck with it,what ever method of madness you happen to choose....
I guess I will be the odd man out and suggest that you shoot it first and see how it does before you change anything. If do, and determine that the barrel contact is causing issues, I'd take the path of least resistance, which is sanding the barrel channel a little bit. you might be surprised how little you have to take off to make it free floating.
The WORST thing that you can have is intermittent contact. It will drive you nuts. I had this on 2 different guns, which is why I go for the 1/16th clearance if the stock is plastic. I don't recommend the hot water approach. You will definitely end up with residual stress and every time the rifle gets really warm you will get creep and ultimately, contact. Don't ***** foot around with ordinary sandpaper, get a coarse grit belt for a belt sander, cut it across the width near the join and then you will have a nice long strip of really coarse paper to put around your hardwood dowel. That stuff will get that channel opened up in no time. Just keep checking progress and make sure it is even left to right. Regular sanding sheets are really thin and the grit is too fine and plastic gums them up in no time.
I agree Westcliffe, I'll be taking this approach. Thanks for all the further tips and info. Very helpful. Kinda had a gut feeling the hot water approach had some unintended consequenses. Appreciate your input and knowledge, as always.
Last edited by Roger SS; 12-30-2012 at 01:37 AM.
This rifle will be my long range shooter.. I want to make sure that barrel is completely free of any external influence. You may be right though...may not be that much stock material that needs to be sanded down.
I assumed he had already been shooting it..He did not say if he did or did not...If not then I have to agree with you on shooting it first...In fact I know of one guy that has a savage 110E I beleive in 243 cal,that has to have a pressure point at the end of the stock to make it shoot well..Without it,the **** thing shoots 4 inchs at 100 yards,with it it will do an inch easy....So that goes to show that not all barrels need to be floated..
Just wondering out loud and not meaning to hijack the thread but.... This pressure point is acting as a vibration dampener to reduce the whipping action at the end of the barrel. Mass(material density being a factor) and length of the unsupported barrel effect its natural vibration frequency as well as amplitude, basicaly all that determines how much a barrel can whip or move and at what frequency it will be moving. The exciting force being sufficient to generate harmonics is the detonation of the round and the wave of vibration moving down the barrel towards the mzzle end. So enter the pressure point to reduce the movement of the barrel by shortening the unsuported length of the barrel you have reduced the amplitude but increased the frequency. This is effective I have seen it.
So my question is, in this situation would a different load be the solution rather than a pressure point? Is the design of the barrel i.e... diameter, length and or material wrong?
he tried several loads with out any great accracy...Once we lossened the action screes and put a few pieces of paper at the very end of the forearm and retightened the screws it came to life,with just about every load he tried in it...So floating was not the answer for his rifle..And later I glassed the end of the stock with mar-glass and now it is a great shooter...
Hey ace. I just got this Model 111 LRH 7 Mag Christmas Eve and have not fired it yet. Just alot of fondling and dry firing (with snap caps) that's when I noticed the stock touching the barrel on the left side up front. Failed the dollar bill test. Interesting you mention the pressure points sometimes being beneficial to accuracy. In fact, the Marlin XL7 guns have two pressure tabs touching the barrel and the majority of folks say their X guns are true tack drivers. Others have removed the tabs to fully free float the barrel and have seen no change in accuracy, in some cases, their groups widened. I don't know. Just seems logically to me though....if my barrel is being pressed from one side only....my results at the range will suffer.
Very interesting study in physics. Am I to conclude that you believe having pressure points on the barrel is more desirable to increase accuracy instead of a free floated barrel?
Ever seen how plastic parts are made? It's called an injection mold press - small plastic pellets are heated and melted into a liquid state and injected into the mold under high pressure, then the mold rapidly absorbs the heat from the plastic which allows it to cool and solidify. Re-heating the plastic isn't going to affect it's integrity in any way shape or form. Depending on the mold and complexity of the part, an IM press can kick out a part ever few seconds (plastic forks) to one ever 15-20 seconds (Ford HVAC housing) to one every minute or so (old tube-type TV housing). Also, in many cases said molds are multi-cavity so they produce multiple parts each time the press cycles.
Not a new idea at all. In fact, if you look at many older sporter-weight rifles (1960's and older) the factory would intentionally put pressure on the barrel with the stock - usually at the very end of the barrel channel. It would just be a little bump in the wood that would serve to shorten the harmonic wave length of the barrel. It wasn't until the mid-late 60's that free-floating barrels became a popular practice. The practice isn't completely forgotten in modern times either. Sim's Vibration Laboratory (SVL) makes a rubber donut you can slip over you barrel and move forward or back to "tune" the harmonics. More elaborate and expensive harmonic barrel tuner's are still quite popular with some old-school rimfire competitiors as well.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Roger, I was simply stating that however unintentional, the barrel that needs a presure point is tuned to a frequency that that particular cartridge excites. Like tuning a guitar, when the string is tuned it vibrates in sink with the body of the guitar and it resonates. That is the harmonics. When this particular phenomena takes blace the only thing you can do is increase mass or change the unsuported length so you can take the barrel "out of tune". Food for thought.
It appears to me that one can "tune" a barrel for a particular load, or conversely, come up with a specific load "tuned" for the barrel.
Two different ways to gain accuracy.
Yep. It's simple rocket science (ie, physics). However, the contact from a marginally molded stock touching only one side of the barrel in some random spot is likely to create problems that vary with temperature (summer to winter ... or hot to cold barrel). A carefully placed contact node dampener or two could be applied at just the right spot(s) to kill the natural vibrations of the barrel and would be less prone to variability due to expansion and contraction with temperature.
Members who have read this thread in the last 1 days: 0
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks