Savage 10FCP-K .308 chamber deminsions

sliderspal · 12-19-2012, 06:56 PM

Started reloading for my savage 10FCP-K .308 and when using the Hornady OAL gauge I have found that the throat of my rifle seems pretty short. I have found that when I chamber Federal factory match 168Gr matchking ammo which is factory set at 2.800" COAL I am getting the bullets going into the lands about .025". So in order to get this factory ammo to chamber to the point were the bullets are just touching the lands I have to set the COAL to 2.775" and if i what the bullet jump at .010" I would have to set the COAL to 2.765".
Going to these shorter lengths I am finding that the powder is getting compressed and I don't really want this.
I understand that bullets will vary in overall length by a small amount even in the same batch of ammo or bullets. But the numbers I am stating are averages over several rounds.
Has anybody else ever noticed this with the savage modek 10 rifles chambered in .308?

**Russell D** · 12-19-2012, 07:07 PM

Do you have a caliper to measure the ogive of a bullet?

What I usually do when I change bullets is I will take an extra case and use a band saw to cut the neck of the case so the bullet will easily slide in and out. Then I put the new bullet in only far enough to keep it from falling out, then put it in the rifle and close the bolt, then measure the OAL with that bullet. That tells you where the bullet contacts the rifling without being pushed into it. I then build loads from there and I know how far the bullet travels before contacting the rifling.

I don't know what chamber reamer savage uses for its rifles, but there are many different types of 308 reamers, just like 223...

sliderspal · 12-19-2012, 07:16 PM

Yep I have all the Hornady OAL gauges and I have found that measuring from the ogive to the base of the case with factory federal match ammo I am getting the bullets jamming into the lands by about .025". I have to wonder if there is something wrong with the chamber of my 10FCP-K as I would think that factory ammo is sized to fit most all .308 chambers.

**Russell D** · 12-19-2012, 07:18 PM

When you open the bolt after closing it are you getting marks from the rifling on the bullet?

**xsskeet** · 12-19-2012, 07:20 PM

Interesting observation... I submitted a post here on the board about a 111 30-06 barrel. If I tried seating bullets to the length recommendations of a few of the bullet manufactures, I was jamming the bullet into the lands. I suspect a short throat.

I called Savage, and got some ding bat that had no clue what I was talking about. Tried to explain to her how measurements were made to the Ogive. She was on a different planet.

When I asked to talk to a person with some knowledge, her answer was... No.. They are busy... All of our barrels are chambered to SAAMI specifications... Told her... Thanks and hung up... Was a waste of time and effort..

I just back off .020 to start with and go from there...

sliderspal · 12-19-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Russell D

When you open the bolt after closing it are you getting marks from the rifling on the bullet?

Yep about .025" worth. So in order to get factory ammo to chamber without jamming into the lands I have to set the bullet back at least .025"
And to add to the confusion I am only getting 4 instead of 6 land marks on the bullet.
The 2 land marks that are missing are adjacent to each other.

**Russell D** · 12-19-2012, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by sliderspal

Yep about .025" worth. So in order to get factory ammo to chamber without jamming into the lands I have to set the bullet back at least .025"
And to add to the confusion I am only getting 4 instead of 6 land marks on the bullet.
The 2 land marks that are missing are adjacent to each other.

Has the barrel been shot a lot? You could take it to a gunsmith and have them move the throat forward .025". It may help with accuracy to correct the issues with the throat.

sliderspal · 12-19-2012, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Russell D

Has the barrel been shot a lot? You could take it to a gunsmith and have them move the throat forward .025". It may help with accuracy to correct the issues with the throat.

Rifle has about 150 rounds down the tube.
I guess it will be going back to Savage.

**DanSavage** · 12-19-2012, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by sliderspal

Rifle has about 150 rounds down the tube.
I guess it will be going back to Savage.

Always make sure you clean the living snot out of the barrel before you take orgive measurements. There have been several reports of short throats on the Model 10 F series. One day after woodchuck hunting with my 10-fp I removed a 168 FGMM from the chamber and noticed rifle marks on the orgive of the bullet. I didn'nt sweet it because the owner's manual says there test bullet for the .308 is the 168 FGMM. Bieng close or even in the lands is a good thing for accuracy, allthough the match kings can handle a jump as well.

As long as your rifle isn't showing signs of over pressure I wouldn't worry about it. I reload for my 10fp now and have found that the most accurate loads are compressed. Now after about 1200 rounds through it the throat has moved out a little but not much. I mainly shoot the 175 Match king at 2.780 and the 168 Match king at 2.800

dnsmith · 12-20-2012, 12:06 AM

I have both a Savage 10 PC and a Remmy 700p. to answer your question, the savage has a much shorter throat than the remmy. honestly have never shot factory ammo in it, so I can't say if it would jam in the lands. I have shot barely-jammed rounds through mine with no issue, no pressure signs (albeit not with max loads).

If you are having accuracy problems or pressure problems with factory ammo, I'd be concerned. if not ... not. the cleaning issue is something to consider, my 10PC picks up fouling very quickly.

stangfish · 12-20-2012, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by sliderspal

And to add to the confusion I am only getting 4 instead of 6 land marks on the bullet.
The 2 land marks that are missing are adjacent to each other.

Rather than dickering around ask for a return authorization and have them check the concentricity of the chamber to the bore, or possibly some other missalignment of the chamber.

sliderspal · 12-20-2012, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by stangfish

Rather than dickering around ask for a return authorization and have them check the concentricity of the chamber to the bore, or possibly some other missalignment of the chamber.

Yep you are correct and I will be in contact with Savage also have to say that the customer service at Savage Arms has been nothing but excellent and I know they will take care of this situation for me.
I just wanted to get a feel what others have to say about this possible issue before I made contact with Savage as I didn't want to present an issue that might not be a real issue.
Thanks for all the comments.

bhunter · 12-23-2012, 12:52 PM

let us know what you end up finding out what works best....

**missed** · 12-23-2012, 10:21 PM

Subscribed...

ellobo · 12-24-2012, 05:28 PM

Send a bullet with the marks from the misaligned lands along with the rifle. It will show them you arnt talking through yur hat.

El Lobo

shanejohnson2002 · 01-03-2013, 03:23 PM

I am having the exact same problem!

I first noticed it when I could not extract a live unfired round from the chamber. It simply would not pull out, and the bullet would stay stuck in the barrel while the shell casing would eject, flinging powder everywhere. I took it to the gunsmith, and he told me it was nothing to worry about, just a tight chamber. This was using FGMM 168gr SMK's...factory loads. I measured them and they were a bit on the long side, 2.81-2.85, but this shouldn't have caused as big of a problem as it did. I also noticed marks on the bullets themselves when I removed them from the chamber. From what I gathered, it was caused by the bullet jamming into the rifling. I am still concerned this might cause overpressure problems (even though I haven't seen any), so I switched from FGMM ammo.

Now, I've been using Hunting Shack ammo of various kinds, and have noticed the accuracy slowly getting worse. I'm worried that in the ruckus to get it repaired the first time, it was damaged somehow...maybe the crown was chipped or something. Not sure. I also am having issues extracting spent rounds sometimes...the bolt just gets stubborn. I just know it was doing better than 1" before, averaged around .75" @100yds. Now, it's doing good to stay inside 1.5-2", and this is with HSM "Match" ammo. I've checked the scope and it's still secure. Next step is the action screws I guess. I really don't want to go back to FGMM.

In my view, a "tactical" rifle (which this is marketed as, being an LE/swat marksman-type weapon) should function 100% reliably, and that INCLUDES ejecting live unfired rounds.

Just chiming in to let you know I'm in the same boat.

pitsnipe · 01-03-2013, 04:01 PM

Sliderspal,

It definitly sounds like you drew the short chamber. I'm sorry to hear that, as I guess I was one of the lucky who didnt. I'm able to load the same round in my FLCP-K .308 out to 2.845 before I hid the lands. And at that length I can still get them into the mag and they eject intact (unshot and dont pull out the pill) I would send it back and quote what I have here as "proof" that yours is way too short. That chamber needs to be lengthened in my opinion. At that length you would be hard pressed to load berger VLD's. And mine just ABSOLUTLY loves them with a .030 jump and 1/2 moa at 200 yards, 5 shots when I do my work.
Good luck!

Well,
I should known better than to go off of my memory (thats why I write down EVERYTHING I do with reloading cause with all of the various combinations of loads I use I can get mixed up. And that is what I did here). Went home, checked my data, and for the 168 SMK pill Im into the lands at 2.805. Dont EVEN know what I was thinking with the 2.845. Must have had VLD's on the brain. THOSE I load to 2.880 (.030 from the lands at that length) My .308 seems to like that .030 jump no matter what weight of pill. Sorry for the confusion. Again, I wish you luck with yours. I SURE LOVE SHOOTIN MINE!

Ishodu · 01-05-2013, 12:14 PM

My gun is the same way 12br in .308. I find the ogive on those as well as the hornady 168s to be short and fat. I have no issues seating them in with a compressed charge. In fact my close range load is the 168g amax seated .005 from lands and will hold around 1-1.25" at 300 if I do my part. Now with the longer ogive on the 155.5 bergers I use for long ranges are a perfect fit for the chamber. As well as the laupa senars but I am yet to shoot my load developing rounds in this bullet yet.
So maybe they used a palma reamer on our guns designed for the 155s?
I can get my exact measurements from my books if you want to compare.
I too was a bit confused when I first got the gun and couldn't load the 168s to spec. But have learned lots and am very happy with it.

sliderspal · 01-05-2013, 10:11 PM

I have since found out that Savage uses an Obermyer chamber in some of the .308 rifles.
I have tried to do some research on this but have found little technical information on the Obermyer style chamber.

sliderspal · 02-20-2013, 08:52 AM

Opps wrong thread.

bodywerks · 02-20-2013, 09:35 AM

Ever get that rifle sent in?

sliderspal · 02-20-2013, 07:20 PM

Yep sent the rifle in and Savage replaced the barrel as it seems the chamber was out of spec.
They also shot the rifle with the new barrel on their 100 yard range and the target they sent shows a .6 moa 5 shot group!
Also now I can chamber a factory round without the bullet touching the lands.
Savage customer service is the best i have ever experienced, and they really do care about the customer and their products.
Thanks Savage.

Shooter50 · 02-22-2013, 11:00 PM

I have the same problem with a Model 10 FCP-SR in .308. I measured with a Hornady OAL gauge and 168 gr SMK is touching lands at 2.690. Only took rifle out for first time last weekend and noticed bolt was tight closing. Checked bullet after loading and you could see the rifling marks on bullet. Guess I'm going to be calling Savage too.

Shooter50 · 03-26-2013, 07:07 PM

Just got rifle back from Savage paperwork says they polished chamber. Well that was not even the problem, still have rifling marks and still measures 2.690 to lands. Guess I will call them back again.....

stangfish · 03-26-2013, 07:18 PM

Boots Obermeyer's reamer print is page 185 in the Pacific Tool and Gauge Gunsmiths Book of Chamber prints. The 308 Winchester reamer print is on page 189 of the same book.

The Obermeyer reamer appears to be .4737 in the web. .4450 at the body/shoulder juncture. The neck diameter is .3440. The throat diameter is .3085. The lead is 2.1277 and the throat is 2.2824 long.

The Winchested reamer appears to be .4738 in the web. .4551at the body/shoulder juncture. The neck diameter is .3442. The throat diameter is .310. The lead is 2.1388 and the throat is 2.3515 long.