OK folks. Got some LC M2 ball surpluss ammo laying around from my garand. This is factory loaded ammo. It will chamber, but not with increased force to lower the bolt handle. It's very difficult to extract. I'm positive that it is jamming the bullet into the lands. Are the throats on the savage chambers shorter than normal, or is this ammo known to be longer than saami spec?
Origonal barrel factory installed? I was shooting a new axis in same with some ww2 win surplus , I was single loading and it chambered easy. I do have a pre accutrigger tactical that i will check freebore and get back to you with a length. Usually a factory sammi chamber is long , long enough to chamber 220 gr and 180 round nose. When i say chamber i mean leade, or freebore . I have not had my coffee yet . Sammi and sav. Tact actuall specs will follow , after i wake up.
Forgot to mention , gov 30-06 min and max are more generious than saami, which means your lot of 30-06 ball may be larger than sammi specs
Yes, factory barrel.
M2 - 150 gr or 168 gr.. If its set that far out that it interfere's with loading (I loaded up some interbonds to the same length as these.. and get some lands marks.. profile is very similar).. there is no way I'm seating some 200 grainers in this. Not an issue, I'll just go slow and watch for pressure.
Thanks
Spray some footpowder or athletes foot powder on the cartridge and load it. Then remove it and look for where powder may be removed from contact. My Savage 30-06 doesn't extract miitary ammo well either. I was using cheap milsurplus just to zero the scope without wasting high priced ammo and ended up giving the ammo away.
I was planning on using a sharpie, but yeah.. its in the works. I'll just save the M2 for the garand.. theres none of that giving away ammo stuff going on here MR.. lol
Also inspect the rim. See if the extractor leaves a scrape.
Mach.. Wanna explain a bit further than look for a scrape. I'll look, but I'd like to know why I'm looking. Only the m2 is the problem.. the 30-06 reloads I have dont have the issue.
Mach.. very small scrape where it went over the rim. I went home and colored the bullet and case with magic marker.. closed the bolt.. pulled it back to see where it rubbed.. and left the bullet behind. It is definitely hitting the lands very early... about 1/4 - 1/2 in front of the case mouth. After tapping the projectile out of the barrel, I inserted and extracted the case (without projectile) and it worked perfectly...
When you close the bolt handle down the extractor should slide around the rim about 20 degrees.
There shouldnt be a mark either where the extractor slides over the rim when just closing the bolt. their shouldnt be any marks or scrapes anywhere.
Did you get that M2 ammo at a gun show? I wonder if it was reloaded ammo.
Now you see why I gave away my milsurplus ammo?
To yank a bullet out a case takes some doing. LOL!
I said it was hell opening it back up. Still primer had sealent... and I know the source of it...straight from cmp. Ill save it for the Garand. It looked like small scratches, but they were stored loose...could be the source.
Yanking it out... especially with what appeared to be sealant around the projectile.
One thing to remember, is it's actually better, pressure wise, to seat a bullet deeper into the case, for a rifle. That is not the case with the fast expanding powders in pistol cartridges. You could easily run them through a seating die till they chamber and go with it.
But if you have a Garand, and it chambers in it, then no problem.
Disagree. It raises pressure.
Depending on how close to Max...it could push it over pressure.
Actually it doesn't. Pushing it down into the case provides a little "jump" to the lands, and this reduces the pressure "spike" caused by seating a bullet into the lands.
Barnes bullets were some of the leading researchers on this, since their first versions of monolithic bullets, did not have the grooves in them, and loaders were seating them near the lands as they were used to for lead based bullets. This was causing the Barnes X bullet load to show major overpressure signs well below maximum charges. Barnes did their homework and discovered that seating the bullets deeper did two things for them. One, it lowered pressures and two it increased accuracy.
It's a different take, but the same general idea that Weatherby used on his long throated rifles. The long throats provided a jump for the bullet before pressures peaked, thus higher velocities were able to be achieved with higher pressures and larger charges.
Bottle necked rifle cartridges, and their powders do not react the same way a fast burning pistol powder does. seating a bullet deeper in a .357 with a near max charge WILL give you serious issues.
handi... we are looking at this from two different points of views.
I know of exactly 0 companies that say loading and seating into the lands is acceptable. Loading into the lands is improper and wrong, so to use that as a starting point is fallacous. You're comment was stated as an absolute (no caveats), and I felt that it was misleading to people who don't reload. Yes, backing your rounds off the lands, like they are supposed to be will reduce chamber pressure.. but to fire a round that was in contact with the lands before ignition is wrong to begin with.
My argument isnt that backing a round off the lands raises pressure.. its that seating deeper raises pressures when all else is right.. aka.. the bullet is already off the lands. If the bullet is .002 off the lands, and you seat it to .004, you will see a measureable increase in chamber pressure in a test barrel. That is the reason some companies put a minimum OAL for specific bullets.
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