110BA 338LM failure to extract

[w2ec]

Just got my 110BA in 338 Lapua. Of course I didn't heed the problems people seem to have with Hornady brass so got a few boxes (250grHPBT Match). And true to what people have said, they seem to have heavy bolt lift and stuck cases. What I have found by looking at the cases that failed to extract (80% of them) is that it appears that as the bolt is closed, the extractor is not fully engaging the rim of the cartridge. Then when the gun is fired, the recoil causes the extractor to completely slip the rest of the way out of the rim. I think this is what causes the heavy bolt lift as the extractor is being forced into the side of the receiver since it has not fully slipped into the groove on the rim of the case. And then when you finally do manage to get the bolt up, since the extractor hasn't set in the rim groove, it has no way to pull back on the cartridge to extract it. While it does take a little tapping to get the "stuck" case out with a cleaning rod, I think if the extractor were still fully engaged in the rim groove after firing, I would be able to extract the brass with little effort. I did "borrow" some Lapua rounds from a friend and they fired and extracted fine. Measuring the rim of the Lapua and Hornady, I get an average of a .005" smaller diameter on the Hornady. Enough to cause the extractor to slip off? Anyway, looking at the Hornady brass that failed to extract, there is a very obvious and visible tearing of the rim brass where the extractor slipped off. I'm pretty sure it is when the bolt is raised or lowered, not while trying to extract, because the gouging is at an angle, with a slant of the gouge from the inner part of the rim and off the cartridge completely. If it occcurred during extraction, I'd expect to just see the brass on the rim ripped straight back. I also took the bolt out and slipped both the Lapua and Hornady into the bolt face to see how the extractor looked and worked. Sure enough, the extractor grabbed the Lapua quite well and held it solid against hand pressure. The Hornady was visibly not getting "grabbed" well by the extractor and could be easily pulled out of the bolt head by hand.

So I think the combination of the undersized rim on the Hornady brass, and a very shallow lip on the extractor, combine to make use of the Hornady brass a very iffy thing.

Does anyone know if a replacement extractor, larger (deeper lip) is available, either from Savage or as an aftermarket item? Savage hasn't answered my question yet. There is plenty of room on the cartridge rim for a longer (deeper into the cartridge base) lip on the extractor to avoid the slipping out of the groove on marginally sized brass rims such as the Hornady. I'm not a machinist or I'd try to make one myself.

Any ideas on whether what I've found is possibly the problem? Has anyone else noticed the gouges on their Hornady rims?

[sharpshooter]

A lot of 110 BA owners are having the same problem with Hornady brass and ammo. Seems to never happen with Lapua. I had a customer bring one in with the same problem. Lapua and Graf brass extracted every time, the Hornady brass was 1 out of 10. I measured all the cases and could find no difference. Just as a wild shot we tried a different extractor and then the Hornady worked fine. Sometimes a small difference of just a few thousandths will make or break the situation.

[w2ec]

Thanks for the information. Hopefully I'm on the right track to be able to use this Hornady brass, meanwhile I have a box of 100 Lapua brass on order. May I ask where you got the replacement extractor, directly from Savage or is there an after market source?

[sharpshooter]

Yes, it was just a factory extractor

[sparky123321]

I had the same problem. The Hornady brass was just too soft and expanded too much. That's what caused it to stick in the chamber and fail to extract even with mild loads. I needed to use a cleaning rod to tap the Hornady cases out of the chamber. Switched to Lapua brass and never looked back. I know the Lapua brass costs a lot more, but I'm confident that it's going to last a lot longer. So, it's probably going to be cheaper in the long run.

[w2ec]

Update: I received my Lapua brass order, along with one box each of Nosler and Norma brass to try. Loaded up 15 rounds of each using CCI250 primers, 85gr IMR4831 (don't have any H1000 or Retumbo yet, on order at dealers) and Hornady 250gr HPBT Match, same bullets as loaded in the factory Hornady. Then fired 3 round strings of each, Hornady, Lapua, Nosler and Norma in that order and repeated it until all 15 rounds were fired. All but two Hornady rounds failed to extract, extractor slipped off rim of each one. None of the Lapua, Norma or Nosler brass experienced a failure to extract. Bolt lift on Hornady very heavy, normal lift with the other brass. What conclusion can I have other than that the Hornady brass is at fault.

I had sent an email to Hornady Tech about the problem. The email response was to call their tech line telephone number and they would give me an exchange for other Hornady items, all I needed to do was send them a copy of my sales receipt along with the lot number of the ammo. Called the tech phone and got a completely different story. I was told in no uncertain terms that the Savage 110BA was not a very good rifle, that the chambers were poor and not cut properly, that they needed at a minimum a good polishing after leaving the factory. I was told I should send the rifle back to Savage and have it done right. They said there was absolutely nothing wrong with their Hornady ammo. He also said they had never received a single complaint about their 338 Lapua ammo failing in any rifle other than the 110BA. He would not address why Lapua, Nosler and Norma brass all function correctly, he only wanted to talk about how good the Hornady ammo was. He also refused to exchange or replace the Hornady ammo I already had, he said if I didn't like it, I should just sell it to someone else.

If this person is an example of typically Hornady customer tech service, I have certainly made my last purchase of any Hornady product.

Guess I won't bother replacing the extractor, just stick with Lapua brass, should have paid attention to all the complaints I had been reading about the Hornady brass/ammo.