So many ejection issues posted here

[sixonetonoffun]

I see many ejection issues posted here and many are fairly straight forward issues. Cleaning, foreign materials, ejector spring/pin/ball. But I have to wonder if some of these aren't simply caused by over heating the chamber. Expansion causing hang issues which disappear once the barrels have cooled. If this is the case. How much can be lapped away without causing other issues? I'd imagine headspace would have to checked to rule it out.

Something like this would hardly be noticed when hunting but siting, bench shooting with factory "Pencil Stick" barrels... What will these barrels take in terms of shots per round? I'd guess probably something like 3-5 shots 8-15 minutes cool-down. I'm pretty sure when my kids shoot its more like 5 down the pipe reload 5 down the pipe. Check groups. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Reading this sounds to me like my kids need their own rifles. At least the 13 yr old twins. The older 2, 16 & 18 are pretty well setup.

Just some random thoughts and like 3 questions buried in there. Comments?

[fgw_in_fla]

With my .270 & 7-08 I can send 5 to 7 downrange before I pull the bolt & mag & face it back to the wind for a little cooling. I can't ever recall having any ejection or sticking issues.
I do recall my brother in law (who is mentally deficient by choice) shooting enough rounds to allow me to see heat waves come off the barrel in summer. It might have been glowing if the sun was set....

The rifle still shoots good & holds accuracy reasonably well when hot.

Frank in Fla

[Underdog]

I usually shoot 10 and then let it cool for 10 min. Mines only a 223 and I've had it pretty hot. One day the wife shot 20 in a 5 min period, it was real hot. But I've never had any issues with extraction or ejection.

[sixonetonoffun]

Hmn wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. But glad to know its not unheard of to shoot up a box of shells an hour. Frank you are without a doubt the kindest Brother-in-Law in the history of Brother-in-Laws!

[Admin]

I see many ejection issues posted here and many are fairly straight forward issues. Cleaning, foreign materials, ejector spring/pin/ball. But I have to wonder if some of these aren't simply caused by over heating the chamber. Expansion causing hang issues which disappear once the barrels have cooled. If this is the case. How much can be lapped away without causing other issues? I'd imagine headspace would have to checked to rule it out.

Something like this would hardly be noticed when hunting but siting, bench shooting with factory "Pencil Stick" barrels... What will these barrels take in terms of shots per round? I'd guess probably something like 3-5 shots 8-15 minutes cool-down. I'm pretty sure when my kids shoot its more like 5 down the pipe reload 5 down the pipe. Check groups. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Reading this sounds to me like my kids need their own rifles. At least the 13 yr old twins. The older 2, 16 & 18 are pretty well setup.

Just some random thoughts and like 3 questions buried in there. Comments?

In most cases, if you're having an ejection issue with your Savage the cause can be traced directly to the tolerances allowed for each of the parts in the system. Tolerances such as the bolt head recess diameter being slightly oversized, the ejector pin hole being oversized. the ejector pin and/or spring itself being a little on the short side, the detent ball being smaller than the bore of the hole, the extractor being a little on the short side. All the individual part may fall within the acceptable +/- variance range provided on the blueprint, but when you start adding up these variances and consider how each will affect the other when functioning as a unit, well...then you see why it can becomes a problem for shorter cases.

When you look at it from a functional standpoint, the extractor essentially becomes the pivot point for the case. As the bolt is pulled rearward, the outside edge of the case mouth or shoulder becomes the bearing surface along the wall of the chamber or action as the ejector pushes the opposite side of the base of the case forward. The angle created by this is called the deflection angle, and how acute or obtuse the angle is depends on the case itself - mainly by it's length and body diameter. The shorter the case, the greater the angle will be before the case mouth or shoulder will hit the wall of the action. The greater diameter the case, the greater the angle will be before the case mouth or shoulder touches the wall of the chamber as the chambers diameter is larger. If the angle created is too great - such in the case of the .221 fireball due to it's short length - it will become to great for the extractor to keep hold of and the case will fall out of the bolt head before the case mouth reaches the ejection port.

The size of the case head also plays an important role, with the smaller (.378") case heads being the worst. The reason for this is because no matter what the case head diameter, the ejector length and travel is consistent. The smaller the case head, the closer the ejector is positioned to the center of the bolt head. So if the ejector pushes the case head of a given length case out say 0.30" before the case mouth or shoulder contacts the inside of the action, the angle created between the bolt head face and the case head will be greater on a .223 bolt head than it will on a .308 or magnum bolt head.

It's simple geometry.

[fgw_in_fla]

I just read Jim's explanation of extraction problems....


Anyone got any tylenol....


oOowwwww...my head...

Frank in Fla

[Admin]

Ok Frank, I'll simplify it for you...or at least help you visualize it better.

Grab one of the bolts out of one of your rifles. Now grab an empty case and insert it into the bolt head making sure the extractor snaps over the rebated rim. You'll have to hold it firmly and apply pressure to compress the ejector pin spring so the case head sits flush.

Now with your finger applying pressure over the case mouth, slowly start letting up on said pressure and watch as the case starts to be pushed upward and away from the bolt head at an angle, with the lip of the extractor being the pivot point. Keep going until finally the case gets to an angle at which point is slips out from under the extractor and falls to the floor.

Now think of the diameter of the chamber and the inside diameter of the action (don't forget to account for the raceway cut as the necks on smaller caliber cartridges will fit into it). Once the neck of the case clears the neck of the chamber the ejector is able to push it off to an angle until it's stopped by the chamber wall. This angle increases again when the case mouth clears the breech of the barrel, at which time the case mouth or shoulder contacts will come into contact with the inside wall of the action. If at this point that angle is greater than the one where your empty case fell out of your bolt head, well....you're going to be picking your cases out of your action as they'll fall out of the bolt head before the case mouth reaches the ejection port.

Better?

[sixonetonoffun]

Thanks Jim B. for the detailed and enlightening post. Simple geometry to you perhaps... Makes sense that does.