Are berger bullets really that much better ???????

[acemisser]

if so tell me why

[BoilerUP]

"Better" is relative.

In my limited experience their VLDs are very consistent, and very accurate...but can take a while to dial in.

They also tend to have higher ballistic coefficients, and are more expensive:

I'd probably use them if I competed...but I don't, so I shoot cheaper bullets.

[kschilling]

Ace: I shoot Bergers, both hunting and target bullets. Yes, they take a bit of tweaking to dial in, but when you find that sweet spot they'll put a smile on you face that will last forever. If you compete at Mid - Long Range, they are hard to beat. If you're only playing out to 200-300 yards, I've found that a flat base bullet will do wonders.....

[davemuzz]

I've found them to be wonderful one hole "groupers" at 100 and 200 yards. At 300 yards they are just 1" groups. Oh my!!!.. I buy 'em and shoot 'em from my 6.5. I also shoot deer and when I get to WY, I shoot Antelope with 'em. Like kschilling says...find the load and you will love 'em.

Dave

[davemuzz]

I've found them to be wonderful one hole "groupers" at 100 and 200 yards. At 300 yards they are just 1" groups. Oh my!!!.. I buy 'em and shoot 'em from my 6.5. I also shoot deer and when I get to WY, I shoot Antelope with 'em. Like kschilling says...find the load and you will love 'em.

Dave

[thomae]

(Dave, you must be getting old...you are repeating yourself!)

[earl39]

maybe he just got excited and started stttttturrrrtering. We all know it don't take much to get old men excited when talking bout lead pills.

[davemuzz]

(Dave, you must be getting old...you are repeating yourself!)

Oh man....I dunno how that happen!!!
Oh man....I dunno how that happen!!!
Oh man....I dunno how that happen!!!
Oh man....I dunno how that happen!!!
Oh man....I dunno how that happen!!!
Oh man....I dunno how that happen!!!
Oh man....I dunno how that happen!!!

[darkker]

if so tell me why

I will echo that they SEEM to take more fiddling to get dialed in.
Also noticed that they don't seem to survive the Trans-sonic range as well as Sierra's.
YMMV, just my experience.

[acemisser]

Appreciate the replies...I have some to try..Is it true they have to be into the rifleing to get the
best accuracy? Or do they like to jump into the lands....22-250 CAL.....Love the new barrel.
with 79 gr SMK it's a good shooter..Still have loads to develope...
Also I have some left over 55 gr.v max which I have been told will shoot real good in 1 and 9 twist.

So much to do and so little time to do it in.....Thanks for any advice or ideas.....

[82boy]

Are berger bullets really that much better ???????

Better than what?

Berger makes great bullets, are the the absolute best thing out there, in most case no they are equal to everything else. The question is more of a personal preference thing. In 100-300 yard benchrest up untill this year hardly anyone would even think of using a berger bullet. Now that beger had listen to there customers, and gotten back to thier roots, and devoloped the new Column bullet for the 6PPC croud, and it is doing well. ( I like it I placed 3rd in a NBRSA match with this bullet.) The problem is whith beger bullets they are mass produced, most match shooters desire a bullet of a higher caliber, and will shoot names like Hottenstine, Cheeks, BIB, Barts, Bruno, Dennoff, Rossing, JLK, ETC. Up untill the column bullet, berger did not have a bullet that would stand up to the aformentend name bullets.

In the long range game you see Bergers name up in the equipement list a lot more, and the reason could be that there are only few hand makers of longrange bullets. Most people have good luck with 105 vld, and other such bullets but not everyone dominates with them. I find that the Sierra 107 match king is every bit as good as the bergers if not better, it is what I shoot in competition, as do others. I have shot many 22's and cant say that I have seen an advantage of a berger over a 52 or 53 gr Match king. I will say that I find that berger bullets are more consistant, when measuring the for ogive length, than others.

With all that said, Berger builds a great bullet, but for the most part it is on par with other mass produced bullets, mabe with a slight edge in some areas. What it all comes down to is finding what works, It might be a berger, or a lapua, or even a Sierra.

[82boy]

Is it true they have to be into the rifleing to get the
best accuracy? Or do they like to jump into the lands

That depends more on your barrel.

[helotaxi]

In the long range game you see Bergers name up in the equipement list a lot more, and the reason could be that there are only few hand makers of longrange bullets.

More likely it is because their Chief Ballistician is a long range shooter and that has influenced the direction that their designs have taken. Benchrest shooters are kind of an odd lot and the idea of them using anything "mass produced" is wrong on principle. Long range shooters are different in that regard and from what I've seen are more concerned about what works than all the benchrest "standard practices" that make OCD people ask "WTH are you doing that for?"

[helotaxi]

That depends more on your barrel.

And the particular bullet. The really long ogive of the VLDs often like to be touching the lands to keep them from yawing into the rifling as they leave the case. Their more conventional bullets act just like any other bullet.

[jtkratzer]

I wouldn't see the point in using the VLD bullets for 300 yards and in, especially if they're more expensive when a regular match grade bullet will do just fine at those ranges. Bergers seem much suited for retaining velocity and KE at long range while bucking the wind.

[acemisser]

well..I just got make from the range.Shooting 250 yards with my 22-250 26 inch barrel in 1 in 9 twist..
I used the load that Berger told me to try using IMR-4350 powder..I was very disapointed to say the least.
73 grin bullet..The one 5 shot group was like a shot gun patteren...

I think I am going to stickwith the 69 gr sierra match king bullets...They shoot and easy inch at the same distance..
Just my opinion is all...

[davemuzz]

Ace, How far from the lands?

[M.O.A.]

yes how far from the lands where you? the one think that has been consistint with all the reading i have done on bergers is they take some playing with the setting depth to get them to shoot.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7...g-vld-bullets/

check this out

[stomp442]

The best thing about the Berger bullets is that your match bullet is also your hunting bullet. I love the fact that all my big game rifles are tuned to be at their maximum potential with a high b.c. bullet for optimal long range performance while still being able to punch paper with the best of them without changing Bullets and loads. I have found the bergers to perform excellent on game as well as provide excellent "accuracy. My savages all shoot best with a Berger seated 25 thou from the lands. They can be picky when finding a load but like was mentioned once you do you won't go back to anything else.

[acemisser]

Dave...approx .015 from the lands...They shot the worst of any bullets I have
ever tried out of the 22-250..To date with the new barrel,I like the 69 gr.SMK
the best with re-15 powder..

[davemuzz]

Ace, just for kicks I'd try seating 3 at 5-thousands, then 3 at ten-thou, then 3 at 20-thou, and just for kicks, another 3 at twenty-thou. You may want to try Varget if you have some.

FWIW....in my new Savage carbine in .223 with a 1-9 twist, I'm getting fantastic groups using Varget and Hornady 68gr. Match bullets. I have been seating these at just SAMI OAL. I've been busting groundhogs with 'em. One shot and they don't know what has hit 'em.

[lal357]

i swapped to bergers in my 6.5 creedmoor and had about the same groups until i read about seating them out from the lands and found the sweet spot being .120 off the lands now i'm holding 1/2 moa or better @ 300 yds.

[acemisser]

well,see there you go..I always heard they had to be into the lands..Jamed in as some said..

Dave-I always seem to get the best accuracy when seating bullets the length the manuals
say..And others say they need em into the lands.Maybe it alldepends on the chamber....

And yes I have some Varget on hand.A so called friend of mine gave me some 414 to try..
Jim,the fellow that I got the barrel from said that is his powder of choice in 22-250..I will
try it today..

[BoilerUP]

VLDs tend to like a jam...the 73gr HPBT is designed to be mag length (ie. jump) friendly much like the 69/77 SMK.

[darkker]

A so called friend of mine gave me some 414 to try..
Jim,the fellow that I got the barrel from said that is his powder of choice in 22-250..I will
try it today..

760/414 really worked well for my 22-250 FWIW.