Neck Turning

[fgw_in_fla]

I notice my long range guns that I reload for are usually dead nutz, on the money accurate. Every once in a while I get a few rounds that don't co-operate & I'm sure it's due to inconsistant neck tension. I'm thinking it's probably time to take my reloading OCD to the next level & start neck turning.

When seating bullets, I can tell which ones will suck by how they feel when I press them in. If they feel harder to press or scratchy, I put them in the back of the box & sure enough, they will not be as accurate / consistant as the rest.

SO..... To start neck turning & make all the bullets seat consistantly (and shoot consistantly), what do I need to buy? Which brands / types are good for us part time, up & coming, still learning long range shooters?

Or.... is there something else I should look at?

Thanks

Frank in Fla

[seanhagerty]

OK, I have a theory.

I think the bullets that seat hard arent from unturned necks. I think they are from hardened brass. I anneall periodically and find that I dont have any hard seating bullets.

With brass that I have not annealled, even fl resized or neck sized, I find that there are some that are hard to seat. When I anneal, no issues at all.

There is no other data I have to support this, I just have noticed this when I reload.

Sean

[drybean]

+1

drybean

[M.O.A.]

Plus one more

[82boy]

The seating pressure, would more than likley be from the brass being work harden, anealing would be a much better idea. There is only two reason I neck turn brass, one is to fit a tight neck chamber, (main reason.) second is for a light cleanup, to improve consintrisity.(Only removing 1/2 thou) With that said before you think about neck turning brass, you should get a consintrisity gauge, and see if it is needed. Neck turning is not somthing to be taken lightly, I have see more people screw up brass by neck turning, and there was no need in doing so.

If you still feel you need to neck turn brass, minmum tools needed is a ball or tubing micrometer, a good turner, not something attached to a lenth cutting device, and something that has a expanding mandrel that fits the turning mandrel. I would recamend buying 1 single neck turner for each case you deside to turn, and if you want to get advanced on it, I would recamend buying 2 neck turners for each case, one set up for the first pass and the second set up for the second pass, once they are set never touch them again. Then if you going to that route you might as well have a turning motor. You can rely spend a lot of money in turning neck, and get little to no improvement.

A better solution find the cases that shoot funny and segregate them, or throw them away. There are other things that you can spend money one that will give you more improvement for you dollar, than neck turning.

[fgw_in_fla]

I already anneal all my brass every 2nd firing. I think that can be ruled out. Of course, there is a definite & noticeable difference in freshly annealed cases & cases that are in need of it.

One thing that is quite noticeable - new cases. When they're brand new they always press with the same or very similar pressure. They accuracy is always very consistant as well. I can never seem to duplicate that amount of tension & consistancy.

I'm thinking I like 82's advice which, as I mentioned earlier, I put cartridges that don't feel the same toward the back of the box & use then separately.

Thanks - I think i'm done for the night.....

Long day.

Frank in Fla

[jim_k]

I notice my long range guns that I reload for are usually dead nutz, on the money accurate. Every once in a while I get a few rounds that don't co-operate & I'm sure it's due to inconsistant neck tension. I'm thinking it's probably time to take my reloading OCD to the next level & start neck turning.

When seating bullets, I can tell which ones will suck by how they feel when I press them in. If they feel harder to press or scratchy, I put them in the back of the box & sure enough, they will not be as accurate / consistant as the rest.

SO..... To start neck turning & make all the bullets seat consistantly (and shoot consistantly), what do I need to buy? Which brands / types are good for us part time, up & coming, still learning long range shooters?

Or.... is there something else I should look at?

Thanks

Frank in Fla

Frank, neck turning isn't going to solve the problem. The most accurate rounds will be the ones that seat relatively easily, which I learned by listening to a great shooter who learned from Creighton Audette. I had been experimenting with tight, medium, loose, and when I heard that comment from my friend, I started looking for ways to make consistency. I dragged out my neck-turning stuff and did 100 cases, but they still had inconsistencies in bullet-seating pressure. When the bench-resters talk about consistent neck tension, they are talking about cases that barely fit in the chamber, and they can feel the pressure ring at the base of the bullet "pop" into its exact spot in the case neck. But they may not even size the neck. We aren't going to do that. I found that using the Sinclair mandrel body and the expander mandrel for the appropriate caliber, I can get very consistent tension on all my case necks, and without annealing. If the mandrel goes in tight, I run it back and forth until it gets as loose as it's going to get. Then when I seat bullets, they all feel the same, give or take, at least extremely close; and the accuracy is much improved. Do that experiment, since it's much cheaper than some other tests you could try.
Jim

[davemuzz]

I guess I "get to" the same place that Jim does.....but I do it via neck turning. :) Yeah, when I "feel" the bullett being seated too hard, or harder than the others I known the neck tension on that piece of brass is tighter. I first measure the OAL with a Hornady tool and usually (as in 99% )the OAL is longer than I want. Now, I do not size using a mandrel so I will take that piece of brass & just turn it in my pre-set Forester cutting tool. Then nec size again, and wha-la!!

I also check the inside diameter of the neck so that it's consistent with the rest.

FWIW

Dave

[Dennis]

Frank, I usually put one firing on my brass before turnng. I use a Forester neck turner, quick and good, and I shave abut .0005 off the outer necks. You will have cloudy and shinny parts on the brass. Personally I believe everything counts. I run an inside mandrel in the necks after turning.

I usually end up with some pretty straight necks.

[fgw_in_fla]

I noticed today while shooting 25.06 with 85gr Noslers. When I loaded them, all the soft pressure, easily pushed bullets went on one side, everything else on the other.

Major differences between the two. I won't even waste my time or barrel life shooting less than consistant ammo. The rounds I used today punched a one hole, 5 round group. The "other" ammo wouldn't get any tighter than .75".

I guess I'll start separating my brass for better consistancy. To be honest, I really don't want to add another step to brass prep. It takes to long now.
Thanks guys.
Frank in Fla

[Luckus]

82boy spot on.

[fgw_in_fla]

Thanks everyone for all the very informative info. I did a little reading on the subject & I thought it might be the "next step" in achieving Nirvana or home brew, hand loaded ammo that punches one hole consistantly.... First time, every time.

For now I'll continue to sort my rounds according to how they feel while pressing in the bullet. As I mentioned earlier, there was a definite difference between ammo with bullets that pressed in smooth & easy & rounds that were hard, required more pressure to seat & they feel a little scratchy while pressing.

Last week I bought a few bags of brass in various calibers. I absolutely love the way new Remington brass assembles. The bullet presses in smooth & easy and, as I mentioned, the groups shot with that ammo was incredible.
Here's an example...

If you look at #289 & 297 on the lower half, 1/10gr of powder & tight necked cases caused the group to widen considerably. These were shot last Saturday with my Edge 26.06...

Thanks again gents. As usual your advice / input is most helpful.
Gotta shutdown...... lightning storm nearby.
Later Y'all

Frank in Fla