Why not headspace with an unfired case?

[mattri]

People talk about using a fired case to set headspace, but I've never heard of anyone using a virgin case. Is this an elasticity issue, the fired case having a harder shoulder?

Just curious, Matt.

[82boy]

What your trying to do is set the barrel headspace up to match the sizing die. Unfired brass is undersized to fit all chambers, it is then expanded when fired, the sized down, now it is the same dimentiones as your die.

[mattri]

Interesting. So you take a case that has been fired (presumably in another chamber seeings that yours isn't headspaced yet) then run it through your sizing die and use that to set headspace on your new barrel?

If you were to use a virgin case, the shoulder would be undersized, so too short, and if you headspaced off of it all your fired cases would be too long?

Is that about correct?

[jgerrington]

You can headspace to unfired brass. If you headspace to your die then you don't need to buy a separate neck sizer your FL sizer is now just basically bumping the shoulder back and sizing neck.

[justin1098]

why not spend 25 dollard for a proper gauge and piece of mind?

[Blue Avenger]

It is oversized to what my die produces. And when I size my brass I work it more then I need to. It is a cheap easy way to a custom fit. Yes I may have a problem if I try someone else s loads, BUT I know that and just shoot my own.

Just another form of wildcatting that some of us are comfortable with and others can not see there way to doing. I will say there is less explosive expansion going on with my load them factory loads. Also a whole lot less then forming Ackley Improved cases!

[mattri]

justin1098, you'll notice from the op that the question wasn't a merit issue, but curiosity re fired/unfirfd brass.

If I'm understanding this correctly then you can use virgin brass, it will give you a different fired case dimension that you may or may not desire depending on your application.

Thanks for the replies-another form of wildcatting- that's a good way of putting it.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

I don't ever expect to be able to shoot "factory" loaded ammo so I set my headspace to full length sized brass. New or fired, both work the same. I've got gauges but don't bother to use them.
Set your dies/press with a slight cam over and your brass will always be sized the same. Headspace too loose or too tight? Change it. It'a a Savage.

[Admin]

But Mike....we all know that you absolutely, positively have to use OSHA approved, SAAMI spec, ISO rated headspace gauges because even being off a mere 0.0000000001" on headspace will kill you! No really...I read it on the internet so it must be true!

**for those who can't recognize sarcasm, that's it right there**

[82boy]

Set your dies/press with a slight cam over and your brass will always be sized the same.

Well not always, if you mix up your shellholders it will change this. And this is also asuming that the die is made right, and have had dies, that was too long, and they needed shortened to work properly.(Even when setting hedspace on the brass that was sized in it, and the chamber set up on it.

[Willoughby]

when I set the head spaced for the 1st time on a Savage barrel change - I set it to .0001 using a fl resized case & tape method
& then checking it with a spent primer.... easy enough
then I thought I'd just go ahead & check the headspace on some of my other factory rifles SAV & REM
I found from .006 to .012
the abilty to set headspace is a great asset not only for saftey , but accuracy, & case life
Savage design is so far beyond the pack - if you were aware of it -you'd have to ask yourself why you'd ever consider another make
& headspacing is just one of the design area's Savage leads the pack in -.............
Thank you Savage for such a well thought out design...... I have replaced the majority of my rifles with Savages..

[joeb33050]

New cases I've measured have .004" to .006" less case headspace than SAAMI spec. 308Win case headspace is 1.634"-.007" = 1.627" to 1.634". Chamber headspace is 1.630" to 1.640".
GO = 1.630". NOGO = 1.634" GO/NOGO gauges are made/dimensioned for fitting NEW barrels/actions, and allow for some lug/ramp setback after firing, also a little wear.
Setting headspace with fired FL sized cases allows/means minimum case sizing/working and longer case life.
joe b.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Bottom line is... If you arn't sure enough about what you're doing, use a go/no go gauge.
The advantage of the Savage barrel nut is if you want to change the headspace, or for that matter swap calibers/barrels, you can, without spending a bunch of $$ for a Smith to do it for you. There's always a chance that the Smith could do it wrong.
SAAMI specs are for factory loaded ammo. A nice snug headspace makes your brass last longer. Not much chance of over working it.
You can't expect to do your first barrel swap or headspace reset and know all about it. It takes time so you really get the drift of what's going on. And sometimes with different folks it may take a long time to "really" understand what's going on. If you feel you know exactily what you're doing, go for it. And there's no shame to admit you're not too sure. And us Old (Older) Guys don't know everything. Sometimes hard to admit but it's true.

And Patrick, if you're mixing up your shell holders, my guess is you've got a better grasp of reloading than most. More than one shell holder? You're thinking about other ways to get to what you want.
One shell holder and one die, that won't change. Always goes back to the same spot.
Compitition shell holders in the mix tells me you're working for a different goal.

[82boy]

Compitition shell holders in the mix tells me you're working for a different goal.

Actualy not competition shell holders, I have a bunch of standard shellholders. Here is a short story of something I rec3nty done. I got them mixed up one day, and was not sure wich one I used to set my die up on (Either a RCBS, or a unmaked one.) ((posibly a forester)) So I used the RCBS and my loaded rounds was .005 short, put the unmarked one in and my rounds loaded out to what they should be. There is a diference with standard shell holders.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

That's a good reason to measure your gear so you know what you're working with. I have a couple of shell holders that I have shortened by running them in a drill press, down onto an well oiled sharpening stone. Took off "just" the amount I wanted. They're marked and kept seperate from the rest. Hard to tell them from factory unless they're measured.
And, you know more than most so don't confuse the rest of us that don't. And what you've learned wasn't done overnight. For others, it's best to go real slow till you really know what you're doing.