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Thread: Pillar Bedding Boyds for Varmint action

  1. #1

    Pillar Bedding Boyds for Varmint action

    I am looking for any kits, tips, or tricks for pillar bedding a Boyds thumbhole stock with a 4.4 stainless action. I would like the pillars to be stainless to match my action and want to know the best method for drilling and installing them. I will also be bedding the action after it is pillar bedded, but could only find the pillars sold on stockys website (they arent stainless) Any advice regarding the best pillars or pillar kits as well as the best installation instructions would be much appreciated. I know there used to be articles for this on the old site, but I cant find them anymore.
    Last edited by Johndenverut; 07-17-2012 at 08:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    do not know why you need stainless
    all i use is lamp rod ,cheap at any hardware store
    just cut to lenght

    drybean

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    I use the Savage Extra Pillar Sets for a Savage sold by pakratinator on Ebay. They are alumminum and the rear pillar is already nothched for the Savage. I put 1 to 2 wraps of painters tape around the stock screws to center in pillars and cover with kwiki netural shoe polish and then attach the pillars to the action. Drill slightly oversized holes for the pillars to depth in your stock. You can access the screws heads from below through the small stock holes for clean-up and removal after bedding the pillars in the stock. I use Devcon Plastic Steel Epoxy purchased at the local hardware store and kwiki shoe polish for release agent. Less mess and easier clean up when done. You want to put tape or a couple of business cards under the barrel and tang so they are free floated in the stock when you bed the pillars in place. Make sure everything fits just right before you do any bedding. First pass I just bed the pillars attached to the action for proper placement and depth. You need to set the pillars attached to the action into the bedding compound. Tape action to stock for stress free job after making sure the barrel, tang are free floated and the action is level and everything is centered in the stock. After bedding the pillars, I come back and bed the action and recoil lug.
    Last edited by jpdown; 07-17-2012 at 09:56 PM.

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    Are there any good arguments in favor of steel pillars vs aluminum...or vice-versa? Assuming that the difference in material strength is irrelevant for this purpose, the only meaningful advantage of one over the other that I can think of is the fact that the aluminum won't rust.



    Am I missing anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johndenverut View Post
    I am looking for any kits, tips, or tricks for pillar bedding a Boyds thumbhole stock with a 4.4 stainless action. I would like the pillars to be stainless to match my action and want to know the best method for drilling and installing them. I will also be bedding the action after it is pillar bedded, but could only find the pillars sold on stockys website (they arent stainless) Any advice regarding the best pillars or pillar kits as well as the best installation instructions would be much appreciated. I know there used to be articles for this on the old site, but I cant find them anymore.
    Here's a link to the "stress free bedding" article. The author suggests bedding the action and pillars as one unit to eliminate stress. He also is a proponent of flat top pillars with the bedding material providing the support on the sides of the pillars. The article show a Remington, but it works just as well on a Savage.

    http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by WuzYoungOnceToo View Post
    Are there any good arguments in favor of steel pillars vs aluminum...or vice-versa? Assuming that the difference in material strength is irrelevant for this purpose, the only meaningful advantage of one over the other that I can think of is the fact that the aluminum won't rust.


    Am I missing anything?
    Good question. If it is just an asthetics thing I will ignore the stainless look for a better bedding job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johndenverut View Post
    Good question.
    Thanks. Every once in a great while I slip up and ask something that isn't completely stupid. I do try to keep that to a minimum though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johndenverut View Post
    If it is just an asthetics thing I will ignore the stainless look for a better bedding job.
    Actually, I don't even know of any stainless pillars specifically for Savage models, and was thinking of the steel ones from Stocky's:

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WuzYoungOnceToo View Post
    Thanks. Every once in a great while I slip up and ask something that isn't completely stupid. I do try to keep that to a minimum though.



    Actually, I don't even know of any stainless pillars specifically for Savage models, and was thinking of the steel ones from Stocky's:

    Those are the same ones I am debating over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuzYoungOnceToo View Post
    Are there any good arguments in favor of steel pillars vs aluminum...or vice-versa? Assuming that the difference in material strength is irrelevant for this purpose, the only meaningful advantage of one over the other that I can think of is the fact that the aluminum won't rust.

    Am I missing anything?
    So.....nothing on this?

  10. #10
    Actually, the pillars are just spacers to set the barreled action at the right level. The bedding of the recoil lug is SUPPOSED to be the impact resistance and strength. So, AL or SS? Al is easiest to work with, and readily available fomr vendors. I use a 1/2" front, and a 3/8" rear.

    Bed all at once after you have done all the prep work for best fit all around. Follow tutorial.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerer View Post
    Actually, the pillars are just spacers to set the barreled action at the right level. The bedding of the recoil lug is SUPPOSED to be the impact resistance and strength.
    Understood. But I wasn't referring to recoil. I was talking about resistance to compression, which is why I was assuming that the difference in material strength wasn't an issue in this case.

    So, AL or SS? Al is easiest to work with, and readily available fomr vendors. I use a 1/2" front, and a 3/8" rear.
    Interesting. Why makes aluminum pillars easier to work with than steel ones? The possibility of having to trim or otherwise cut into them?

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    Just a guess here, but my thought is that bedding (either with or without pillars) gets the action aligned and seated stress-free at the right level and angle.
    The recoil lug is supposed to take the recoil stress.
    The other (main) purpose of the pillars is to have a relatively non-compressible metal-to-metal contact from the action screw head to the action so that one can accurately torque the action and have that torque (which, indirectly, is a measure of the amount the bolt is "stretching") remain constant. No fluctuations due to change in compressibility of flexible plastic or wood swelling or shrinking.

    Considering the low torque values used on to fasten a Savage action to a stock, I believe the difference in compressibility of the aluminum or steel pillar is so small as to be insignificant.

    ...But now I have peaked my interest so let me stop guessing and find some facts:

    Doing a little research, I find that for any material, "Bulk Modulus of Elasticity is the ratio of stress to change in volume of a material subjected to axial loading."

    In other words, "the bulk modulus of a substance measures the substance's resistance to uniform compression. It is defined as the ratio of the infinitesimal pressure increase to the resulting relative decrease of the volume."

    For various alloys of Aluminum, this measurement is in the range of 9.9 - 10.2 x106 pounds per square inch. ( 9,900,000 PSI to 10,200,000 PSI)

    For various steels, the Bulk Modulus of Elasticity is as follows:
    Stainless Steels 18-8 23.6 x106 pounds per square inch
    Steel, cast 20.2 x106 pounds per square inch
    Steel, cold rolled 23.1 x106 pounds per square inch
    Steel, various 22.6 - 24.0 x106 pounds per square inch

    Conclusion: So, even though Aluminum is roughly twice as compressible as steel, if you are compressing the aluminum pillars in your rifle stock by applying Ten Million pounds per square inch of force, (give or take a few pounds) I would gently suggest that you are likely tightening your action screws just a tad bit too much or your torque wrench is slightly out of calibration.


    (If I have made any egregious mistakes I would hope that someone with more/better knowledge of metallurgy will step up and correct me.)






    ref:
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/bulk-modulus-metals-d_1351.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_modulus
    Last edited by thomae; 07-20-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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    Excellent post thomae. Thanks!

    And, try as I might...I just can't seem to torque my action screws to anything even remotely approaching 10 million ft/lbs. I guess I'm just not the manly-man I thought I was.

  14. #14
    This thread seems to be along the lines of what I'm trying to do. So when drilling the holes for the pillars just go about halfway down through the stock and then cut the pillars to the correct height? Or is there a more proper technique to do this?

    Also any tips for drilling out the rear hole? It seems since its on an angle the drill bit will want to walk around slightly.

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    If I was going to fret i would be more concerned with dissimilar metal contact especially if humid or in rainy weather. Look at a galvanic chart, look at the metallurgy of the action vs. the pillar material. The further apart the 2metals are on the chart the more corrosive/ reactive they are together.

    In reality neither metal should be an big problem. To me i would stay away from the contoured pillars and go with flat ended at all cost.
    God grant me the serenity to accept the shots I cannot make, the ability to make the shots I can, and the wisdom to hide the bad targets.

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