How accurate is Savage out of the box?

[Ishooter]

My wife got me a Savage Model 11 in 243 about a year ago. I have been trying to work up a load that it likes. The best group I can get is about an inch and a half at one hundred yards. I keep hearing how accurate Savages are and this one can't stand up to my 700 or my Encore. They are both 243. With the 700 I can get a half an inch and with the Encore I can get three eights of an inch. I use the same type of scope on the Encore and the Savage. It is a Weaver 4x20 first focal plain. The Savage has the accu stock and safe accu trigger or what ever they call it. I shoot 100gr Sierra Game King and they work great in the other rifles. I have tried 6 different powders and I don't know how many different loads. Is this the best I can get out of a Savage? I was looking for at least half inch groups. Thanks for your time.

[thomae]

Usually Savages are rather accurate out of the box.
If I were you, I'd check the simple things (usual suspects) first: (in no particular order)

• All the scope and mount screws.
• Try changing scope in case it is an internal problem with the scope.
• Make sure the tang is free floating.
• make sure the accustock is torqued correctly to the action (http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...-the-AccuStock)
• make sure the barrel is free floating.
• If the accustok has the accu-wedge, you may want to remove that and see if it helps.
• Check the crown for the soot pattern to make sure it is symmetrical.
• Make sure there are no dings or nicks on the muzzle edge of the bore.
• Is the bore clean? (Savages tend to shoot better slightly fouled, but too much schmutz in the barrel is not good either.
• Try different powder and bullet combinations. Just because something works well in one rifle, does not guarantee it will work well in another.

When you have exhausted these possibilities, and any others that might be offered by those smarter than I, contact Savage customer service about returning the rifle. Perhaps you got a bad barrel?

[stomp442]

All mine have shot great right out the box. Thomae has got you on the tight track.

[TRguy]

What Thomae said, especially varying bullet weights powders and loads....My 243 loves 80gr Vmax but 95gr soft point, not so much....Mine also prefers IMR 3031 powder but will all rifles and all bullet recipes, YMMV

I have 243, 2 7mm-08s, 308, and a 223 in Savage and they all shot good out of the box, and great when I found a load they liked.

[davemuzz]

All mine have shot great right out the box. Thomae has got you on the tight track.

Yup...I agree. Thomae has got you in the right direction. My Savages do what your looking for. Half-inch or less at 100 yards. Also, give your bore a good copper cleaning with wipe-out or another quality copper scrubber. I know my new .223 had some initial "shoot out the rough spots" that coppered up quickly. But after about 50 rounds, and with some good copper cleaning, it now shoots 1/4 MAO as long as I don't flinch when the Gnats buzz by my eyes. :) (And yes.....I mean all THREE of my eyes!!!)

Dave

[devildogandboy]

i love my savages and love to play and mess around with them, always something new happening.
i did get one that didn't shoot worht a crap out of the box and that was my model 16 in 308. i put a nice nikon buckmasters 4x12x40 scope on it and bore sited it and took it to the range to site it in. darn thing was all over the place no matter how i adjusted the scope.
got it home and checked all the scope screws and noticed that the barrel was touching the right side of the stock really hard, couldn't get a piece of paper through there. loosened the action screws and retightened with proper torqueing technique and now it shoots great.
i think someone at the factory was in a hurry for breaktime and didn't care about quality control!
check everything you can, it will shoot good if you can find the problem!

[skypilot]

If you clean it too much or too clean it can do that also. Looking at my .223 data book entry, I cleaned new, then 80 rounds, 249 rds, 402 rounds and settled on cleaning after every 153 rds and it seems to suit my barrel.

Other than that, Thomae has also named the usual culprits.

[ellobo]

Sometimes when attaching the scope mounting the forward most screw is too long and hits the barrel threads so you havnt got the front of the mount tight. A simple thing to check. If so just grind a little foo the screw.

El Lobo

[stangfish]

Also the stevens is a very light gun and if your trigger pull is stiff then you will pull your shots everytime. Bag that thing in and concentrate on your trigger seeze and see if it improves. Also make sure you have a heavy enough boolit. Light boolits in a fast tist don't mix unless your shooting a loooooong boolit Like a VLD. In that case your OK.

[5spd]

My M11 .243, 1/9.25" twist shoots all my handloads under an inch. My 70g NBT w/ varget goes into .460-530" @ 100 yds. My 85g & 95g loads w/ imr 4320 also go under an inch, the 55 noslerBT CT, 58 & 65g Vmax w/ W760 & imr4320 or BLC2 stick about .600" - .800" in it at 100 yds, so yes they shoot sub moa out of the box. I have a nikon buckmaster 6-18x40 SF mildot scope on it. I have the accu-trigger set at 2lbs and standard tupperware stock & I shoot w/a bipod on it.
My scope base is a 1pc 0 moa Ironsetter rail.

[82boy]

I have shot dozens of Savages, and right out the box, with an experinced shooter ,and a tuned load ever one I have shot will shoot a 5 shoot 100 yard average of around 1/2 an inch, with an ocasional group in the .3's Every Savage I have also shot shot better with the barrel dirty, or fouled. If it wont then their is something wrong.

[Ishooter]

Thomae I took the stock off and put it back on. As for the wedge my rifle don't have one. It has three screws. One is a wood screw and the other two are machine screws on the action. The wood screw is in the trigger guard. I tightened the front screw first then the back one in ten inch pound steps. As I said starting at the front. I then tightened up the trigger guard screw till it was snug. There is no way it will take 40 inch pounds of torque. It would strip out in the rubber. I also checked the scope screws and base screws. All was fine. I checked the barrel and it is free floated. As far as I could tell the tang is free floating. I didn't have any chalk dust to check it with. As for the barrel being clean? Yes it was cleaned for every shot for the first ten shots. Then it was cleaned after every 5 shots for twenty. Now it is cleaned after every ten shots. I use Shooter's Choice to clean it and Kleen Bore formula 3 to protect it. After 100 rounds I will clean it then polish it with Flitz polish. After that it will get cleaned and polished after ever twenty rounds. This is how I have dun all my rifles and it has worked for me well. I don't have any barrels with pits or dirt, they all shine. I will shoot it in the next day or two to see if that helped. If it didn't I will change scopes with one of the other rifles and see if that helps. Stangfish I am using 100gr bullets, that is the heaviest they make in a hunting bullet. Well at least Sierra. If I can't use hunting bullets in this rifle it is of no use to me. As far as not letting the rifle move I use a rifle rest for testing loads and setting up scopes. Movement of the rifle is not the problem. If it was I couldn't get three eights inch groups from my Encore. When testing things you have to take out as much of the human movement as possible. Thank you all for your post and your time. I will let you know how it goes.

[TRguy]

...I am using 100gr bullets, that is the heaviest they make in a hunting bullet. Well at least Sierra. If I can't use hunting bullets in this rifle it is of no use to me.

Why not try 95 gr bullets and see what happens, the performance you get from 95 is nearly identical to 100 gr bullets. Not identical but close. I think the stability would be greater on 95 gr, once you hit 100 gr I think you are at the max for stability in the 243. I know some shoot the 105s but they are past the recommended weight for that rifle.

There aren't any mid sized game in North America that can't be taken with a 85 to 95 gr bullet fired out of a 243. As with any firearm, shot placement is key. If you do your work, the rifle will do its. If you needed heavier bullets maybe a 7mm-08 or a 308 was in order instead of trying to max out the 243 from the get go.

[BobT]

Why not try 95 gr bullets and see what happens, the performance you get from 95 is nearly identical to 100 gr bullets. Not identical but close. I think the stability would be greater on 95 gr, once you hit 100 gr I think you are at the max for stability in the 243. I know some shoot the 105s but they are past the recommended weight for that rifle.

There aren't any mid sized game in North America that can't be taken with a 85 to 95 gr bullet fired out of a 243. As with any firearm, shot placement is key. If you do your work, the rifle will do its. If you needed heavier bullets maybe a 7mm-08 or a 308 was in order instead of trying to max out the 243 from the get go.

You could also try the 85 grain Sierra BTHP Game King, the Speer 90 grain Hot Core or the Nosler Partitions or the Ballistic Tip Hunting bullets. At one time or another I have had great results from all of these bullets. The 95 grain Ballistic Tips shot best out of my Savage .243.

Bob

[beartooth91]

Continue checking the stuff above. It may give up what's wrong. If all is well, perhaps you have a finicky rifle. In this case, my suggestion is to change one loading variable at a time and experiment with bullet seating depth. Of my three Savages, two are finicky. The third I just got, so, don't know what its like.
My .243 is a Model 11 FHNS, AccuStock, maybe like yours. I started with the Sierra 70 Matchking. Tried three different powders with unspectacular results. About to give up on the bullet, tried H414 and shot 7/16" groups with that combo.
My 7mm-08 is even more finicky. I've had it two years, averaging around one inch at 100 yards with the Nosler 140 and Hdy 139 SST. For the Hdy 139 SST, I tried four powders, a couple of weeks ago. 43 grns of IMR4350 showed the best grouping, just under an inch. I then loaded up four more sets of these, changing one variable on each set, and shot them Friday. The first set was identical to what I had previously - 43 grns, bullet seated .015 out from the lands. Again, it grouped under an inch. The second set was the same charge, but, the bullet was seated out .030 from the lands. Four shots at 100 yards gave an overall group of 0.574 inches. Three of those shots were in one hole. Third set was 1.3 grns higher charge, bullet seated .015 out. The rifle did not like this combo and the group opened up considerably. Forth and final set was the same 1.3 gns higher charge with the bullet seated .030 out. The group tightened up, though, it wasn't as good as the second combo. All of the previous loads, which I've ran through this rifle and have been unspectacular, have all been with the bullets seated .010-.015 out.
I'm a novice at all of this. For load development, I kind of go by the Sinclair Precision Reloading book:
Pick a bullet and 3-4 powders. One powder should shoot better than the others.
Vary bullet seating depth.
If you try and try and it still doesn't shoot, check the neck concentricity. Run out is a common problem.

[skypilot]

Ishooter, is this your first savage? Just wondering as you mentioned an Encore and you are correct, most other rifles do well with a good frequent cleaning, Savages don't.
Most shoot way better dirty. If all else fails take 3 boxes of Amer. Eagle or other cheap ammo and plink for a while, then cool barrel, setup and shoot a fouled cold bore and repeat the FCB you may be suprised.

[rjtfroggy]

I helped a friend and his son inlaw sight a factory package gun yesterday, federal 150gr ammo and after 24 rounds had them both shooting a little better than 1"@100. This is a mod. 111 30/06 With a sporter barrel, it was the second range session and started with a clean barrel,I told them to leave it alone until the accuracy falls off or when they start shooting reloads and then we will start over.Both were impressed with the accuracy for factory gun.
Then I shot my custom barreled 250 savage working up a new load,3 out of 6 test loads fell in right at .5-.6 the forth was .4 all @100.They went home to search for custom barrels and a VLP.

[jonbearman]

If you cant get the accuracy from this barrel,why not try a replacement from northlander shooters supply 1-763-682-4296. Jim is the man with the most reasonable replacement barrels that are close to custom for average joe price. I have all of his brands and I like mcgowen the best so far.

[TRguy]

If you cant get the accuracy from this barrel,why not try a replacement from northlander shooters supply 1-763-682-4296. Jim is the man with the most reasonable replacement barrels that are close to custom for average joe price. I have all of his brands and I like mcgowen the best so far.

OMG it's a Savage it should shoot MOA out of the box. Hell if I would go buy another barrel. It would go back to Savage to be re-barrel at their expense before I did that. I doubt Savage guarantees MOA but it should be accurate within some tolerance or they should replace the barrel.

Honestly I think sticking with only one weight bullet (One that is at the upper most in weight for stable flight) and one powder is a bit narrow and a lot to expect to perform MOA merely because you demand it from the load you choose. Would be nice is rifles worked that way but they don't.

[skypilot]

Ishooter, just another note in the spirit of helping....I noticed you mentioned 100 gr bullets. Go buy a box of Federal 70 grain Nosler Ballistic tips and you'll be fine I wager. I believe that may be the issue.

[DPmax]

Sorry to hear your Savage is under performing
My 110BA in 338LM really didn't tighten up until after the first 75 rounds.
Since then I've found that it does (as others have suggested) shoot much tighter dirty, and it takes as many as five to ten fouling shots to come back after a cleaning. I'm at 150 rounds on my current "last cleaning" and if I do my part it is sub 1moa. I plan to keep shooting without cleaning until I see a noticeable drop in accuracy... hmm, maybe I'll never clean! (one can dream can't they?)

[chas3stix]

My Model 10 Predator Max-1 in 6.5 Creedmoor is the most accurate out-of-the-box rifle I've ever shot. I get 3/4" three-shot groups @ 100 yards with the Hornady factory 120grain load.That's plenty of accuracy for any four-legged critter I may decide to shoot.

[Jamie]

What rings and bases are you using? I helped a fellow out this past weekend who couldn't get his gun to shoot under 1.5" groups. I tried a couple things and then put on an EGW rail and it immediately went .3" groups.

[Ishooter]

Hi all. I didn't get a chance to shoot the savage today. To much stuff to do. I hope I will get to that tomorrow.

TRguy I don't know where you got that I only used one powder. I have used six to date and have ordered others to try.

As far as going to a lighter bullet, I will try that last. Because I use Sierra 6mm 100gr in three other guns, 2 rifles and one hand gun. I stock about a thousand of them. I don't want to have to stock other bullets if I don't have to. Very short on space. I reload for every thing I shoot. So if I can work out a load that will work with the same bullet then that is one less thing to stock.

My feeling is that most modern rifles will shoot factory ammo,( Remington, Federal and Winchester all sell 100gr loadings for the 243 ) and should shoot a one inch five shot group at one hundred yards. My Savage will not do it. So I tried reloads, lots and lots of reloads. I am not new to reloading. I have been reloading for over thirty years.

Yes this is my first Savage. I used a Warne picatinny 20moa tactical base and Burris xtreme tactical rings for the scope.

It is my understanding that Savage uses a 1 in 10 twist in there rifles and that will stabilize bullets up to 120 gr, so the 100gr shouldn't be a problem.

Now if I have to re-barrel this rifle to make it shoot, this will be my last savage. If I had bought it I would sell it. My wife got it for me so I have to make it work. I will call Savage if I can't get it to shoot and see what they will do about it. If they do nothing I will re-barrel it to make it work and that will be the end of me and Savage. You all have a great day. I will get back to you all after I shoot it.

[TRguy]

The Rate of Twist on Savage .243 is 1 in 9.25"

I have never read where the .243 will stabilize a projectile effectively past 105gr, I have never gotten results out of 100gr bullets with my savage like I have with with 85, 87, and 95 grain bullets. 243 is my favorite cartridge and very versatile and minimal recoil with Lazar like accuracy in the field.....But like all rifles it is limited in its ability due to powder capacity and bullet weight.