Brass issue

[243LPR]

Recently I've noticed when my brass goes into my Lee collet sizer I get major resistance as the collet hits the bottom of the neck(inside of course),right where the taper meets the neck,like there is some sort of ridge there.This is Nosler brass in 243,some have been body sized,some not.I don't remember having this problem until I switched to the collet die.Do I need to inside ream?Any suggestions?

[Luckus]

Not real sure, but you may have a donut inside the neck at it base, which you could ream out, or take your collect die apart and clean and lube it up. I would try cleaning and lubing the die anyway.

[gotcha]

Do you mean when the mandrel goes through the neck ? .... There have been reports of Nosler brass being overly soft which could cause donut to form @ bottom of neck. Do you have other brands of brass doing this also?.................. How much did your brass lengthen on firing? This could provide a clue. If you're getting a lot of stretch in the brass w/ nk sizing only call Nosler & explain problem. Maybe they'll replace.

[MNbogboy]

Do-nuts? Nosler Brass?.....Has happened to me with the last batch in all three of my 260s.....neck sized and FL.....Started after just one firing or two...reamed them out and they seem to come back right away.....Rem & Win brass never happens at all....My thoughts are the Nosler brass is soft and "thick".....Rem brass is also soft but thinner....Never had this problem with any other make of brass in probably a hundred thousand rounds in all sorts of calibers....I have yet to put out the $ for Laupa brass, but has anybody had a do-nut problem with it?.....
My .02
Randy

[gotcha]

Randy, Never had the problem w/ Lapua but I don't shoot a 260......... Better alloy better QC IMO. I think Bruno's sells it by the piece. So it won't dent your wallet so bad to try 20 or 30 pcs. Try it...... You'll like it

[243LPR]

Any suggestions on what brand reamer to use?

[Aircraftmech76]

Wilson Inside Neck Reamer. By its very nature, ALL brass will be thicker at the bottom of the neck than at the top. That's just the nature of the drawing process. The only way to get a true cylinder inside your neck (which is what you want when you are trying to seat a cylinder inside it) is to inside neck ream. All my precision rifles' brass gets this treatment; even the Lapua...AND IT WORKS! A big reason so much ammo has runout problems is that the bullet is a true cylinder, and it's trying to be stuffed into a tapered seat. Just doesn't work well in my experience.

Kevin

[gotcha]

Excellent explanation by a/c mechanic ! Keep in mind that your Lee collet is forcing the donut back to the outside of the neck leaving the inside of neck cylindrical. You shouldn't be noticing any extra drag on bullet when bullet seating, have you? (if the bullet is seated at or below neck shoulder junction) I've never done inside neck reaming personally for this reason. However, there are lotsa ways to skin a cat....... With the price of components soaring, I know I'm looking for ways to extend brass life........ So, IMHO if your bullet base isn't coming into contact w/ the pesky donut you should be good to go......... If you have overly soft brass the donut will continue to re-appear even if you ream. Dale

[243LPR]

This is the response I got from Nosler. Rick; I would suspect the collet die is causing your doughnut problem as this brass has been out for 2 1/2 years and we have not had any other reports of doughnuts forming. As for the primer pockets it would appear that the load is either on the high side, or something with the rifle is causing the pressures to go up. Visible pressure signs are generally not visible until 72-75.000 psi. We have also seen pocket loosening with uniforming tools.
Once a doughnut has formed you 'may' be able to remove with a conventional die with expander ball, otherwise they will need to be inside reamed.
If you would like to send a couple of of the cases I will gladly check the hardness.
Nosler Inc.
POB 671
Bend, OR 97709
attn: Mike Harris

[82boy]

This is the response I got from Nosler. Rick; I would suspect the collet die is causing your doughnut problem... Mike Harris

I agree 100%

[243LPR]

But why does this happen only with this brass? No problems with Win. or Lapua.

[82boy]

I would say that it is still happing you just have not noticed it yet. It could be that the alloy of the Nosler brass is softer, and this is why you have noticed it first.

[earl39]

Pat can you explain how the collet die is causing a doughnut since with the stem all excess brass has to form to the outside. In the most basic way a collet is the way brass is formed at the factory. I am not doubting the doughnut just the blame placed on the die for forming it.

[82boy]

By design The lee collet dies have a floating collet, it is because of the flaoting part that alows the brass to munipiulate itself, or the die, insted of the other way around. (Meaning a traditional die is solid, and the brass must conform to it.) Now, because of the floating collet, if the brass is harder on one side, or thicker, it will push the collet to the other side. (From my experience it cause concentricity problems as well because of this.) Now on the donut forming I will take a quote directly from Lee's web site about the die. "A collet squeezes the case neck against a precision mandrel for a perfect fit with minimum run-out." Notice the word "squeeze." As it is doing this it is pushing the brass back against the shoulder making the donut you are seeing. It has been my experience that this dies causes donut problems. Lets put it this way, if this was truly a better mouse trap you would see other die companies designing similar design dies. If it truly was as Lee quated "Smallest group size or your money back." (Lee not woried about giving someone ther $38 bucks back.) you would see people using them in benchrest, I have shot matches all around the country, and I can say I have ever seen one person use a lee colllet die, there is a reason. The people who swear by them just dont know any better.

[243LPR]

I don't believe the collet floats because by the time the neck is being squeezed, the mandrel is being held in place with the decapping pin in the flash hole. We can't all afford $250 die sets,just trying to do the best I can with what I got. I keep hearing everybody rave about their results,there's got to be some truth in it.

[nsaqam]

The Lee Collet Die has provided me with the most concentric brass of any die regardless of cost or design.
Measured both with a concentricity gauge and with a CMM in an aerospace machining firms quality lab (which I ran for many years).
The ID of the neck sized with the LCD is nearly perfectly round and concentric to the rim and shoulder.
All due to the unique and ingenious design of the LCD.

I've used the superb LCD for umpteen years and have never had a single doughnut formed in any of my brass.

But what do I know I'm just a shooter and hunter and not an esteemed benchrest guy?

[nsaqam]

Also, a collet is the most precise centering device used in machining.

If you're turning parts to a tolerance of .0001 or less you use a collet.

Bushing style dies rely, by their very nature, on the neck walls being precisely the same thickness meaning your brass needs to be extensively prepped or you'll get varying neck tension.

I have neither the time nor inclination to neck turn all my cases.

Tried it for several years and found no benefit for me and a whole lot of fussy tedium.

[darkker]

243,
I have a similar issue with Nosler brass in my 243, and ONLY with Nosler brass. If I don't have a random pressure issue(which is common with the 243) which causes the primer pockets to go loose; then full length size and trim them.
It hasn't stopped it, but helps. I'm not the type to rant and rave and demand anything, but I personally am done with Nosler brass. The box I got about a month ago has lasted me 3-4 reloads. The rest of my brass has 5-7 on it. A portion of that was some resized 308 brass that had at least 7-10 loads through them.

Best of luck.

[sharpshooter]

You don't need a $250 die set.. just go with a standard Redding full length die... no bushings, no collet, no bull$hit.

[243LPR]

I think it's back to Lapua. I've got some with over 10 loadings out of them.

[Aircraftmech76]

and when it comes time to anneal your brass, just let me know. I've provided this service for one guy heading to Perry this year, and I've got lots of time to do more :-)

Kevin