.223 AI vs 22-250

[shooter1059]

Ok Guys,
I need some input and opinions. How does a 223 AI stack up against a stock 22-250 using 55 to 75 grain bullets? Please give input as to barrel life, velocities and anything else you can think of pertaining to a comparison.
Thanks

[Der Verge]

The 250 shoots a little faster, say 100-200fps depending, but takes about 8-10 grains more powder to do so. Obviously, you will have to ff you AI brass, which can me a + or - depending on the person. I have a small batch of 223AI brass that has 5-6 fireings on it. I am still waiting for it to grow so I can trim it . You will find bunches of .223 at the range you can take and form. Not as much 250. I don't think barrel life is a big problem for either, as long as a barrel is not abused.
Personally, either is a winner, but I really like my .223AI. That being said, when I got a chance to pick up a .22-250AI, I jumped on it.

[Blue Avenger]

2850fps to 3750fps for a 69gr bullet is a little more then 100 to 200 fps

[dcloco]

22/250 info from Hodgdon's website:

5 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .224" 2.350" 36.0 3254 43,500 PSI 39.0 3466 50,600 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4350 .224" 2.350" 37.0 3296 46,400 CUP 39.0 3490 47,800 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H414 .224" 2.350" 36.0 3324 40,200 CUP 39.0 3582 46,700 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP Winchester 760 .224" 2.350" 36.0 3324 40,200 CUP 39.0 3582 46,700 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4007 SSC .224" 2.350" 37.8 3656 56,600 PSI 39.0 3786 62,300 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H380 .224" 2.350" 38.0 3507 45,400 CUP 41.0 3713 50,700 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Varget .224" 2.350" 34.0 3490 46,100 CUP 36.5 3664 50,400 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4320 .224" 2.350" 34.0 3480 52,900 PSI 36.5 3689 62,200 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4064 .224" 2.350" 34.0 3461 50,000 PSI 36.3 3713 62,000 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon BL-C(2) .224" 2.350" 31.0 3410 43,800 CUP 34.0 3606 49,600 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4895 .224" 2.350" 34.0 3486 50,900 PSI 36.5 3725 62,400 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.350" 30.5 3400 44,400 CUP 33.0 3589 51,100 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4895 .224" 2.350" 32.5 3446 45,000 CUP 35.5 3670 49,300 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.350" 32.0 3514 52,300 PSI 35.8 3768 62,700 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 3031 .224" 2.350" 32.0 3474 51,300 PSI 34.1 3691 62,500 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Benchmark .224" 2.350" 31.6 3532 46,200 CUP 33.6 3674 50,200 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H322 .224" 2.350" 28.0 3339 46,200 CUP 30.0 3480 49,800 CUP
55 GR. SPR SP IMR Trail Boss .224" 2.350" 9.1 1664 17,200 PSI 13.0 1984 26,600 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .224" 2.350" 35.0 3168 44,900 PSI 38.0C 3366 50,900 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H4350 .224" 2.350" 39.0 3374 51,600 PSI 41.5C 3570 60,500 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H414 .224" 2.350" 37.0 3273 47,600 PSI 40.0 3548 60,300 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Winchester 760 .224" 2.350" 37.0 3273 47,600 PSI 40.0 3548 60,300 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H380 .224" 2.350" 37.5 3335 51,000 PSI 40.5 3580 62,000 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Varget .224" 2.350" 33.0 3318 52,200 PSI 35.8 3503 60,400 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon BL-C(2) .224" 2.350" 34.0 3276 47,100 PSI 37.0 3560 61,000 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.350" 31.5 3272 50,800 PSI 34.0 3494 61,400 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H4895 .224" 2.350" 32.0 3340 51,700 PSI 35.0 3551 61,300 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.350" 31.5 3412 55,600 PSI 34.0 3550 61,000 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Benchmark .224" 2.350" 29.0 3183 49,000 PSI 32.0 3406 59,900 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H322 .224" 2.350" 29.0 3222 50,900 PSI 31.5 3434 62,000 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .224" 2.350" 35.0 3146 44,700 PSI 38.0C 3382 53,900 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H4350 .224" 2.350" 36.0 3210 45,400 CUP 38.0 3391 48,000 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H414 .224" 2.350" 35.0 3262 43,200 CUP 38.0 3432 47,100 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4350 .224" 2.350" 38.0 3308 52,900 PSI 40.0C 3467 60,300 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Winchester 760 .224" 2.350" 35.0 3262 43,200 CUP 38.0 3432 47,100 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4007 SSC .224" 2.350" 34.0 3121 46,000 PSI 38.0 3483 62,300 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H380 .224" 2.350" 36.0 3266 46,600 CUP 38.5 3419 51,200 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon Varget .224" 2.350" 29.5 3039 39,500 CUP 34.0 3426 50,400 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4064 .224" 2.350" 33.0 3269 50,800 PSI 35.3 3499 62,900 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4895 .224" 2.350" 33.0 3287 51,500 PSI 35.5 3502 62,700 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H4895 .224" 2.350" 31.5 3317 47,300 CUP 34.0 3486 50,400 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.350" 30.0 3256 52,400 PSI 33.0 3459 62,100 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 3031 .224" 2.350" 31.0 3284 53,300 PSI 33.1 3457 62,700 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H1000 .224" 2.330" 36.0 3042 41,100 CUP 38.0 3187 47,500 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4831 .224" 2.330" 35.0 2976 42,000 CUP 38.0 3189 50,300 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Hybrid 100V .224" 2.330" 35.0 3091 49,000 PSI 38.0C 3322 58,500 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4350 .224" 2.330" 34.0 3007 44,800 CUP 36.0 3129 49,600 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H414 .224" 2.330" 31.0 2860 42,000 CUP 34.0 3117 49,400 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4350 .224" 2.330" 36.0 3162 54,500 PSI 38.2C 3324 62,500 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP Winchester 760 .224" 2.350" 31.0 2860 42,000 CUP 34.0 3117 49,400 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4007 SSC .224" 2.330" 33.0 3024 49,400 PSI 36.5 3308 63,000 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H380 .224" 2.330" 33.0 3006 45,200 CUP 35.0 3161 51,500 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon Varget .224" 2.330" 29.5 3006 44,700 CUP 32.0 3196 50,300 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4320 .224" 2.330" 31.0 3111 55,000 PSI 33.5 3282 62,600 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4064 .224" 2.330" 31.0 3106 53,200 PSI 33.5 3298 62,600 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 4895 .224" 2.330" 31.0 3111 53,500 PSI 33.3 3278 62,300 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP Hodgdon H4895 .224" 2.330" 28.0 2933 43,000 CUP 31.5 3196 50,700 CUP
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.230" 28.0 3015 49,800 PSI 31.0 3246 61,600 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 3031 .224" 2.330" 29.0 3068 53,600 PSI 31.5 3248 63,600 PSI


From my 223 AI load workup (work up your OWN loads for safety reasons):

5 3311.1 26.2 h4895 55 gr vmax
6 3363.4 26.4 h4895 55 gr vmax
7 3392.3 26.6 h4895 55 gr vmax
8 3399.6 26.8 h4895 55 gr vmax
9 3437.7 27 h4895 55 gr vmax
10 3423 27.2 h4895 55 gr vmax
11 3463.5 27.4 h4895 55 gr vmax
12 3468.9 27.6 h4895 55 gr vmax
13 3496.4 27.8 h4895 55 gr vmax
14 3520.9 28 h4895 55 gr vmax

SHOT VELOCITY h4895 69 Nos
1 3115.2 25
2 3014.2 25.2
3 3011.7 25.4
4 3039 25.6
5 3076.2 25.8
6 3117 26
7 3126.7 26.2
8 3152.5 26.4
9 3169.7 26.6
10 3194.4 26.8
11 3247.9 27
12 3254.6 27.2
13 3279.7 27.4
14 3295.3 27.6
15 3346.1 27.8

SHOT VELOCITY h4895 75 amax
1 2948.3 24.6
2 2948.3 24.8
3 3015.8 25
4 3008.4 25.2
5 3061.7 25.4
6 3073.7 25.6
7 3079.6 25.8
8 3109.1 26
9 3167.9 26.2
10 3155.4 26.4


1 3567.4 26.6 BM cci 450 55 vmax
2 3554.8 26.7
3 3583.6 26.8
4 3581.3 26.9
5 3573.2 27

[savageboy]

I have never shot the 69's or 75's out of my 223ai (it has a 1:14 twist) but with 50's I get 3605fps MAX in my loads that I wont shoot in warm weather if you hear what I am saying. This is out of a 24" barrel. It does shoot the 60gr. Sie. Varmiter very well at about 3300fps- the fastest wasn't the most accurate in this case. So, not sure what a 22-250 does w/ a 24" barrel, but my 24" AR (1:9 twist) falls short about 200-225fps of the 50gr. load

[laportecharlie]

You hear a lot of people saying their 223AI can match a 22-250 in velocity. What they don't say is how much pressure they are getting. I have both and there is just no way a 223AI can SAFELY approach the velocity of a 22-250. Much as I like my AI it is probably one of the improved cases that sees the least improvement.
Charlie

[EFBell]

So let me get this straight; a 223 AI is the equal of if not superior to a 22-250? Of course this is based on personal data vs book data. Well, I have some personal data that drives bullets from my 22-250 in excess of 3900 FPs with a 55 and well over 4000 FPS with a 50, can a 223 AI do that with a 50 grain bullet I'll guess the answer is no. Now of course were not listing any pressure ratings for our personal data so without searching all over the net to try and find it I would assume it is unknown.

[Der Verge]

2850fps to 3750fps for a 69gr bullet is a little more then 100 to 200 fps

Sounds like you are compairing .223 to .22-250Ai, not .223Ai to .22-250.

[Der Verge]

The -250 does create move velocity.
My .223Ai accuracy load with the 75gr. A-Max clocks 3065fps with single digit es and sd. No signs of pressure. If anyone doubts me, you are all welcome to come pull the trigger a few times...

[dfrosch]

SHOT VELOCITY h4895 69 Nos
1 3115.2 25
2 3014.2 25.2
3 3011.7 25.4
4 3039 25.6
5 3076.2 25.8
6 3117 26

Lost 100 fps by adding .2 grains? ??? ??? What the...

[dcloco]

SHOT VELOCITY h4895 69 Nos
1 3115.2 25
2 3014.2 25.2
3 3011.7 25.4
4 3039 25.6
5 3076.2 25.8
6 3117 26

Lost 100 fps by adding .2 grains? ??? ??? What the...

cold/clean barrel....every barrel is a little different. This one quit doing this at 400 rounds.

[dcloco]

You hear a lot of people saying their 223AI can match a 22-250 in velocity. What they don't say is how much pressure they are getting. I have both and there is just no way a 223AI can SAFELY approach the velocity of a 22-250. Much as I like my AI it is probably one of the improved cases that sees the least improvement.
Charlie

Charlie - Really? I gained an easy 300 fps across the board. Max of 3000 fps with a 69 gr HPBT in a standard 223....and 3300 with a 223 AI.

Of note, I do NOT push the loads to max. I shoot in temps from 10 to 100+ F.

[nova1194]

I have both a 223AI and a 22-250, and for the types of shooting I do, I am seriously considering getting out of the 22-250 business. The heaviest bullet I shoot is 60 grains and with the lighter bullets the 223AI gets the job done just as well with 10 grains less powder, and the noise, wear and tear that comes with the extra powder. I have only been shooting my 223 for a little over a year, but have shot it at my range and on PDs back to back with the 22-250 several times and I always seem to have a bigger smile on my face when shooting the 223.

Mike

[Armed in Utah]

I assembled a 223 AI a few yrs back...s/shot 12 large shank & Pac Nor tube of course...12 twist

Pefect p/dog removal tool....

Cheap & abundant brass supply....

3500 fps with a moly 55 Nosler BT with 27.5/BM

The only use I have for 22-250 brass is to reform it for my 6XC......

[img width=600 height=450]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5940/613doggin004.jpg[/img]

[kelbro]

Never owned a 22-250 but the 223AIs are a lot of fun to shoot, they're cheap to shoot, and plenty fast and accurate for me. The improvement over a standard 223 is well worth it.

[steveinwv]

2850fps to 3750fps for a 69gr bullet is a little more then 100 to 200 fps

2850 is moderate for a regular .223 with a 24" barrel. 3000 is closer to max. 3750 with a 22-250 and a 69gr is either ultra high pressure or the gun has a 30+" barrel. My 22-250 VLP does about 3500 with high pressure loads and 26" barrel. I would imagine a .223AI and a 26" barrel should do 3100-3200 with reasonable pressure. All with 69gr bullets of course. A .223AI should be much easier on barrels considering 5 to 10 grains less powder.

[MAGNUS]

22-250 AI will out do the .223 AI

22-250 will out do the 223

[zedsdead]

dcloco helped me out a while back with some load data for the 223AI and gave me the same data he posted previously. My chrono showed the same velocities he showed with the 69gr bullets and H4895. The gun is a 26" BVSS. I've seen some guys claiming amazing velocities with 223AIs, but my rifle definitely won't do 4000fps+ with a 50gr bullet, even if I had balls enough to cram enough powder in the case and pull the trigger. Not saying it isn't possible, some are just braver than I am.

From my load data and notes the AI chambering puts it about half way between a 223 and a 22-250, which is the perfect round for the type of shooting/varminting I do. The lack of brass trimming alone sold me! Excellent round for its intended purposes.

Jason

[dcloco]

Believe several of you have hit on exactly why the 223 AI should/could be the "go to" cartridge, especially when shooting prairie dogs. Less powder equals less heat in the barrel. Will also have less recoil as well.

I am rather hard to impress, but I liked the 223 AI enough that I purchased a reamer.

Cost to reload the 223/223 AI versus the 22/250 is quite a bit of difference also. Not much once fired brass available for the 22/250. Bullet cost is the same for both. Cost of dies is the same when comparing apples to apples. Some advantage to the 223 based cartridge in terms of amount of powder used. Almost three rounds of 223 AI for every two rounds of 22/250.

69 gr bullets in the 223 AI have always been in the 3300 range in 26" barrels in all of the factory and aftermarket barrels that I have used.

[MAGNUS]

Have you looked into a 22-250 AI instead???

You can always load it down to replicate the 223 AI

[dcloco]

Have you looked into a 22-250 AI instead???

You can always load it down to replicate the 223 AI

With the money saved while using the 223 AI, you can buy a 22/250 or 22/250 AI barrel/dies and test for yourself. Save $10 per hundred on new Rem or Win brass alone.

A little more speed is great, but there is no free ride, as we all know.

Would rather have longer barrel life than another 200 feet per second.