Scope & Base Question.

[ss13]

I am working on a Stevens 200 build. The complete rifle will be chambered in 300 win mag.(McGowen 26" barrel), will be bedded in a Boyd's laminate thumb hole stock and have a timney 2.5lb trigger. The intended use for the rifle is western deer/elk hunting and paper punching. I would like to be able to shoot out to 600 yards (hunting less than 600.) I am looking at the Vortex Viper line of scopes.

Here are my questions:

Being that this rifle will be used for hunting/ paper shooting what power scope would be appropriate? 2.5-10x44 or 4-16x44?

I would like to be able to adjust the turrets for holdover. Has anyone used the viper hs (capped turret) scopes for this application? How reliable are the turrets on the HS, capped version? The reason I am looking at the capped version is because I don't want to worry about exposed turrets getting adjusted by accident in the field.

Last question. Will a 0 MOA base work for shots from 0-600 yards with the Vortex Viper scopes, or do I need a 20 MOA base? I will most likely not ever shoot past 600 yards.

[jhelmuth]

I'll probably get some of this wrong (not being a hunter)...

Here are some of my thoughts:

[1] If hunting is the primary consideration, you want a really good light gathering scope (particularly for deer which are more active in the dusk/dawn hours) so look for larger objectives like 50mm with 30mm tubes and excellent coatings which are designd to maximize light. I'd also want to have lower powers of magnifiaction as these are the brightest settings for hunting (not to mention that you need to have a larger field of view for tracking).

[2] If longer range shooting is a priority, look for a scope with enough elevation adjustment (which might negate the need for a 20 MOA mount). This typically means that variable magnifications of multiples of 4 or less are better (as well as the need for 30mm tubes vs 1")

[3] If shooting paper at long range, I'd probably set my minimum magnification at 24x (but I could live with 16x if necessary as long as shooting paper was a lower priority)

So I went looking at the Viper line-up (since this was you choice) and I found only 1 that I think is worthy of meeting ALL of these criteria...

Vortex Optics Viper HS LR 4-16x 50mm (30mm tube) Long Range Scope

As far as the 0 MOA base... I would think this scope would have more than enough elevation adjustment to go with a 0 MOA base in 300WinMag with a maximum range of 600 yards. I would not recommend a 20 MOA base for hunting with this rig. Consider using the Burris Signature line of scope rings which will give you the added ability to swap out zero and ten MOA inserts when necessary (or wanted).


All the best,

Jim

[nsaqam]

My thoughts.

Some of the best and most experienced longer range hunters I know of swear by the 6x42 and the 6x36 Leupolds. I'm not big on fixed power scopes but I see no reason to go with either a Hubble sized objective or above 14x in magnification.
A 40ish sized objective will permit shooting well past legal hours.
Some 30mm tubed scopes have no more adjustment range than a good 1" tubed scope. Their erector tubes are just larger. A 30mm tube is no more bright than a 1" either.
Every scope maker will list the adjustment range in their specs.
I'd be looking at the 2.5-10x40 and possibly the 4.5-14x40 scopes.
The Burris FFII 4.5-14x40 is a nice scope. Economical and they will install their TAC2 turret for only $40 IIRC.
There is no need for a turret on the windage.

[jeffreyC]

If you are not going to shoot over 600 yards you do not need a 20 MOA base with the better scopes.

The Burris Signature rings are out of production and not available for 3 to 6 months depending on who you ask.

The "rule" I use for scope magnification is 4x plus 1x per hundred yards for a minimum power.

So either 2.5-10x or 4-16x is good.

I'm also not a fan of fixed power scopes, since you never know how close you may find yourself to an elk.

[BobT]

While 600 yards is a pretty good poke you should have plenty of adjustment to get there with a .300WM without an inclined mount. If you are going to dial, make sure whatever scope you use has turret knobs you can reset to zero then you can tell at a glance whether or not they have been moved. FWIW I carry my rifles in a back pack scabbard with the caps off sometimes and I have not had one move yet but I always check anyway.

Magnification is another subject. I prefer a lot of magnification but with the correct reticle it is possible to do good work with lower power, just don't sacrifice quality for more power. Me personally, between the two you have listed, I would go with the 4-16, if I was getting a variable for myself for the same thing it would be a 6.5-20. For years I have listened to people say that a low power is good for close range moving targets and it is, BUT, unless you shoot with both eyes open which is pretty difficult above 2x or so it wont get you on target any quicker than a 6x, assuming a correctly mounted scope on a good fitting rifle. A rifle planned for long range shooting should have a little weight to it anyway and that is not conducive to quick shooting so don't get hung up on the lower end power.

Bob

[nsaqam]

BobT makes some very good points. Especially the one about a good fitting rifle with a properly mounted scope being quick to get on target

I will say that I shoot scoped rifles with both eyes open every time no matter the magnification. Possibly because I'm so strongly left eye dominant.

[skypilot]

I, similar to BobT, carry my rifle in a Gunrunner back pack. I have never seen turrent movement in any of my different brands of scopes so it shouldn't be an issue. My thoughts are you should "equip" your technique. I hunt large open farms/ranches and 99% of time. So I have a 6-25x56 mildot, 35mm tube and a 6-24x50 mildot, 30mm tube, a heavy, and if need be, long range rifle. I also shoot targets @ 400 yds when load developing. When hunting in thick hardwoods my optics are much different.

If you spot and stalk and need to shoot @ long distances, magnification is an advantage. Most 30mm tubes should give at least 70 MOA elevation which should be plenty for 600 yds. with a 300 win mag.

Just be sure you get a scope with "good" eye relief whether it's 2x or 36x magnification. I've seen too many folk lie down prone, take a shot @ game and get up looking like they were in the ring with Joe Frazier. Same thing shooting @ severe uphill or downhill angles.

[jeffreyC]

If you want a higher magnification scope you should look at the Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50, I think it is an outstanding choice for a .300 Win. Mag.

[jpdown]

With a laminated stock and 26" barrel sounds like your going to have at least a 9 lb rifle before your add a scope. And I'm not sure why anyone would want to lug around a bulky 16+ power variable power scope with 50mm objective to shoot at western deer and elk at 600 yards and under. You're not going to be making any long distance shots at dawn or dusk anyway, because you proably won't be able to see a deer or elk against the terrain at that time of day. It sounds like you are set on getting a Vortex Viper HS scope. But from what you describe, it sounds like a Leupold VX-3 or VX-R in 4-12x40 with a CDS turret has more of the features you are looking for in a slightly more compact, lighter weight scope. Vortex also offers a ballistic dial turret for the Viper HS series. But I would compare the clarity and contrast of the Vortex Viper HS side-by-side to newer Leupold VX-3 or VX-R. I bet you won't see any significant difference. Both have great glass at an affordable price and lifetime warranties. I've found the fire-dot in the Leupold VX-R is very helpful for low-light, dark background conditions, or for centering on a bullseye at the range. Zeroed at 200 yards, you should be able to dial up to 800 yds with no problem. Burris Signature rings with inserts would give you any extra adjustment range, but you most likely won't need it.

The best guide for choosing scope power I've heard is to take the max distance you want to shoot (600 yd) and divide by the max power of the scope (12X). Now, could you consistently hit a deer, or elk in the vitals that appeared to the eye through the scope to be standing 50 yrds away?

[nsaqam]

That is a superb post JP!

[jhelmuth]

There are ALOT of good points here. In keeping with the OPs criteria (including he has already decided on a Vortex scope), I think it really is a moot point on some of the "other" criteria. For example... while it's easy to agree on the "heavy" rifle makes for a poor lug-around hunter, I think there are very few hunters who shoot 600 yards without doing so from some sort of platform. That kind of off-hand shot from that distance would be VERY challenging for most anyone (unless you really don't care about the animal and are OK with just hitting the thing from that distance - poor huntsmanship in my opinion).

If it were me, I'd have a rifle for it's intended purpose. I don't mix a benchrest paper puncher with a hunter (just doesn't make sense and compromises BOTH functions).

I do agre that the Leupold VX3 would be a really fine choice over the Vortex - but that will stir up a bunch of folks and I'd rather not try to convince anyone that what they want isn't necessarily a good choice. I've found that it's best to learn what is good for me and pay the price as I go along...

[jpdown]

I agree, this thread has nothing to do with Leupold verses Vortex performance. I don't want to get that started. I've owned both and they have great glass for the money with a lifetime no-hassel warranty. I don't think the low profile exposed CDS caps on the Leupold VX-3 and VX-R I own are going to be easily bump off in the field. And a load calibrated CDS dial has a built-in zero stop. After some more research, I see the new Vortex HS models can be fitted with a load calibrated TM dial, if desired down the road. So the Vortex Viper HS in 4-16x44 for the money would be hard to argue against for a dual purpose hunting/paper punching rifle. But lugging a 50mm "hubble" telescope up and down elk/deer mountain is not for me.

[ss13]

Well guys, I ended up buying a Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10x44. I spoke with a Vortex representative about the turret adjustments. He informed me that the standard HS "capped" series are just as reliable for long range elevation adjustment. He stated that the only difference is the capped version is 1/4moa adjustment instead of 1/2moa.

Next Question: What rings and bases would you suggest for this scope? I decided a 0moa base will suite my needs. The question is what brand to get. I am thinking of getting the Burris Sig rings.

[jhelmuth]

Love the Burris Signature series - great product. Another to consider would be the Talley Lightweight (one-piece base and rings) - very strong, easy to get perfect, and very light (also look real nice too).