Definitely got a head scratcher.

[okiehunter]

I have been around hunting / shooting / reloading my whole life. I've taken pride in being able to solve just about any problem that I or my friends have had but this one is kicking me around. I have a Sav. LRH in 338 Lapua and the problem is with stuck cases. New brass (Nosler) chambers, fires (accurately), and ejects with absolutely 0 resistance. After cleaning, sizing, trimming and reloading the once fired case I have a 50/50 chance that it will be extracted. I have a SSS oversized dedent ball (.140) under the extractor. It has improved the ratio of extractions but the once (or more) fired cases give me heavy bolt lift and it seems that the bolt does not want to rotate to the upward position. I have to give it an upward blow to move it to the upper most position and it may or may not extract the case. I'm seeing absolutely no signs of pressure on the the primer, no flattening, leakage, craters, etc. If it were a pressure issue wouldn't it do it on the first firing also? I have made a mould of a new case (1/2 case length) with Acraglass to see if there's a change or stretch that I can't detect. They all fit like a glove. I have a Redding shoulder measuring collet and they are the same at the shoulder whether new or fired. Components include, Nosler brass, Federal 215 MM primers, H4831sc powder (85.7 gr.), Nosler 250 accubond bullets. If any of you can offer any insight I would greatly appreciate it.

[darkker]

Anyone else here feel free to chime-in, but it sounds to me like you need to anneal your cases.
This is REALLY common on a whole pile of new 223 WSSM brass. The brass is VERY hard from the factory. Once fired, the case stretches some and gets even harder. Full length sizing moves the brass, but it "springs" back to fired dimentions. Typically you can feel the resistance when closing the bolt on that brass as well.

[Blue Avenger]

Measure different places up and down the brass. you will find some spot that is oversized. Can you pull loaded unfired rounds? That will help in deciding if it is the first fire and chamber or the sizing die not doing the whole job.

[psharon97]

I was having a similar problem with my 308. Brand new brass would chamber and fire fine and didn't have a problem with extraction. The problem came when I shot the once fired brass. I began to notice that my resizer die was wearing out. (It wouldn't resize the brass completely, I could try and set a bullet in the case and the bullet wouldn't seat correctly-I could pull the bullet out with my fingers.) Long story shot, I purchased a new resizer die for 308 and that has fixed my problem.

Do you have someone else that you can borrow a 338LP die set?

[okiehunter]

Yes, I can chamber and extract with no resistance the new cases. I can also chamber the full length sized case with the same result.

[okiehunter]

My resizer is a RCBS, sized approx. 200 cases. I don't think it should be even close to worn. But, hadn't thought of trying a new brand die to see what happens. That's why I posted to this guru sight to get me on to things I haven't thought of.

[Gene R]

I think i read somewhere that the Nosler brass was on the soft side. Really expanding upon firing and causing cases to stick. Can you try Lapua brass as a comparision? Just a thought. I see if I can find the thread about brass for ya.

Gene

[LHitchcox]

Before making a major move, buy another brand of ammo and try that. It could be bad brass or it could be as simple as turning the sizer die in another 1/16 inch turn.

[Blue Avenger]

OK Take one of your sticking twice fired brass and measure about 1/2" & 3/4" from the base with a caliper and compare it to a new and once fired. That is a common point for brass to expand and a normal sizing die to not reduce the case. You are familiar with small base dies?

[BODAB]

I had the same problem with a savage 6.5 creedmoor. But it only occured when using one particular bullet. Have you tried different bullets?

[okiehunter]

Blue Avenger, There is .001 difference between new and fired brass just above the web area. I have tried going max on resizing die even placing a .005 shim under the case on the shell holder with no change in extraction. I'm not familiar with small base dies, never had this issue before therefore, no need to explore that tool. And, I suppose the reason that I haven't thought in that area is that the resized cases chamber so easily. Will the small base die resize to the area just forward of the web? The Nosler brass, as BODAB states, seems 'soft' at least compared to Federal, Winchester and Remington that I have used in different calibers.
BODAB, hadn't even considered the bullet! Do you have an explaination as to how that could possibily be the culprit? I just can't wrap my mind around that. Please don't take this as me saying it's not possible because I know there are some weird stuff to reloading sometimes.

Thanks to all of you for your input. Please keep streaching my thots on this.

[BODAB]

I cant explain it either, but it was definitely happening with the one bullet. The same bullet in a factory round would chamber and eject fine but on a once fired neck sized case it would hang up and the bolt was hard to close and open and very difficult to eject. This happened on several rounds so it wasn't a one time thing. I tried a couple of different bullets and they chambered and ejected smoothly. Go figure.

[Handloader]

Don't flame me for this....

But are you getting ALL your lube off the case after sizing? I have had this happen (and with a few blown primers, I had to tap the bolt handle lightly to get the fired case to extract).

[seanhagerty]

This sounds like a resizing issue to me. I would readjust your fl sizing die.

[handirifle]

I do not see how the resizing dies should have any thing to do with this whole issue. Once resized, the brass functions perfectly, according to the OP, until he shoots it.

I think there might be other issues, that have been skimmed over.

Although, I tend to agree with Handloader, there is a good possibility that lube is still on the cases, or was at one point. That and the fact that only one brand of brass has been used, makes me think it might be a combination of soft brass and dirty chamber. The force required to lift the bolt indicates an overly expanded case, and STILL could be overpressure, for this particular brass.

Many suggestions have been made to measure the dia of the case, but I wonder about the length of the fired case. It soulds like it's pressing very hard against the bolt. Not familiar with the 338 Lapua, I know it's big case, but I suggest going to the manuals, starting load, and work up from there, keeping records along the way to see it that affects this issue.

One load, one brass, one bullet, is not enough to determine the root cause of this problem.

Clean the chamber, resize the brass, clean the brass, and load at listed starting loads, and see what happens. You could start with cleaning the chamber, and the loaded rounds as well. If no improvement, I suggest you follow the previous steps. I have seen similar issues with reloads in 243 that NEVER showed the "normal" signs of pressure. When I consulted with the Hodgdons folks, they just laughed and said that most of the pressure signs we go by only show up after pressure has gone well beyond where it should be.

Let us know what finally solves the issue.

[Luckus]

I would do as some others have posted, turn your sizing die down a little more and try it. It costs nothing to do and it may work.

[tyler.woodard04]

how hot you running it. if it chambers ok until fired sounds like a overpressure. how hard are the cases to size after fired?

[jdlouie]

hi
I also believe it is over pressure! Load some with a lighter charge and see what happens.

[stangfish]

I would do as some others have posted, turn your sizing die down a little more and try it. It costs nothing to do and it may work.

Why? If it is closing after resizing is easy the only thing you really accomplish is over working the brass with excessive case growth further working the brass. When chasing this problem down.

[Luckus]

My thinking is, if some of the brass is tired, and you are at or near 0 headspace, it may not spring back and cause a hard bolt lift. I may be all wrong, but to turn the die down a eigth turn and try it is simple to do, and has no cost.

[mytwo60]

Definately a sizing issue. Are you bumping the shoulder at least .002 back? If you are not measuring the shoulder (especially on belted cartridges), then chances are you are not sizing it back enough. I had similar problem with my 300WIN. Chambers fine on an empty FL case until it was shot at the range.

I finally went and measured it and it did NOT bump back the shoulder at all. Went and set it back to .003 and all was well.

So measure a before and after FL sized case. You'll find your problem there.

[okiehunter]

Gentlemen, I really appreciate the input from each of you. You have line item by line item gone through all the things I have checked. To let you know where I am on this, I inked 2 loaded rounds completely with a Sharpie. Not just 3 lines down the lenght but the whole thing, and what it has shown me is my problem is with the necks. That's the only place that the ink is completely disturbed (slight 'pressure' on one other area of the ink but not what I call disturbed). I really feel that the necks of the brass was to hard and not relaxing to allow easy removal. I have read as much as I can find about the annealing process and have performed that on 6 test rounds that I feel were done correctly by showing the correct color and similarity to factory annealed cases. As time permits, I will clean, load, and test fire these rounds and let you guys know the results.

[Luckus]

okiehunter,I use 650 degree Tempilac on the shoulder to case body junction. When it turns black you"re done. It's not that difficult to do as you have allready shown yourself. I have some Lapua .308 cases that have been loaded 15-20 times and are still good. Let us know how it worked for you.

[stangfish]

Okie. The first time around aneal them in 1/2 to 1/4 inch of standing water then tip them over. I have seen...haha I have heat soaked cases by not being fast enough. The end result is at a minimum.... loose primer pockets.

[Luckus]

Okiehunter, The suspense is killing me, what did you find?