6.8 SPC on a Savage platform??

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Seems like the SAMMI reamers for the 6.8 have a long throat and the 6.8 SPC II is the longest. My thinking is to go with a "short throat" so I can jam the bullets like I do in my BR rounds but that's just from what I've been use to. The 6.8 might take a jump and have no problems so I'am still up in the air as far as to how to get the chamber cut. On the AR platform the longer throat seems to work best as far as keeping the pressure down but how will the long or short throat differ in a bolt gun? That's where I am right now.
Should see dies, shell holders and bullets some time this week. Load a couple of dummy rounds and think on it.
And it looks like there's not too many 6.8 bolt guns out there so there's not much info (been there,done that) to go by. Lots of AR stuff but in a bolt, few and far between.
I guess the only way would be to get a chamber cut to a short throat, try it and see how it works then lengthen the throat if needed??? And it will be a "one time cut" so it wouldn't be worth investing in my own reamer. I'll keep looking and rereading. And no use getting in a hurry. It'll happen when it happens. I'll keep you posted as to how things are going, Mike.

[tammons]

I would have a DMR chamber cut and a 3 or 4 groove twist 1:11 barrel min or better yet a 12 or 13.
I am almost certain a 13 twist will stabilize a 130 gr bullet. If you wanted to shoot subsonic heavy bullets you might want a faster twist.

Also I personally would not go with a short throat especially if you ever want to shoot 110gr or 130 gr bullets.
If you are going to only run 90 gr TNTs or 85 gr TSX bullets you might be okay but a SPC II or DMR chamber would allow you to run hotter loads.

Also the 110 gr and 130 gr bullets are long and take up too much powder space in the cartridge.
I also would not jam the bullets without carefully testing loads.

If you do wnat to jam 110 or 130 gr bullets, even with a long throat that would be no problem.
They are long bullets compared the the case length. The 110gr tipped TSX is so long when you load them to 2.25"
it looks like about 1/3 of the bullet is out of the case. The ogive is definately inside the neck. Smae with the 110 gr accubond I think.

Everybody that relaods this round is running on the ragged edge or beyond of max pressure.
A lot of people are running at around 60k which is about 5k over max.

All that said, I ran very hot max loads in my 6.8 AR, 11 twist spc II chamber of 110 gr tipped TSX over 29.5gr of 10X which is a case full of powder and very compressed. Very hot load probably running close to 60k.
Sure death to Hogs. Its a real sledge hammer.

I would get occasional swipe marks, but roughly 1 out of 2 cases was toast.
Never broke any parts or any other problems other than trashed brass.

I ended up downloading a bit, mostly because my dad shoots a 10 twist spc I chamber mini and I did not want to break parts or cause problems on his gun if we got our handloads mixed up.

110tipped TSX over 29 gr run fine through his rifle so now I just load 110 pro hunters and 110 gr tipped TSX bullets over 29gr of 10X and call it good.

When the 100 gr tipped TSX comes out, I will probably switch over to that bullet only.

I guess what I am saying is in the end is if you download a little or shoot lighter bullets IMO then the chamber does not matter as much. I know you will not jam any bullet I have used in a spc I chamber running 2.25" COL.

If you want to run over max loads like a lot of the guys on the 6.8 spc forum you should get a dmr 13 twist 3 groove.
A 20" barrel will wring out almost all of the FPs that you can get.

If you get a SPC I chamber and dont like it you can always have it reamed to a Spc II or DMR. You could also have it throated, later if you wanted to shoot a longer COL just make sure you get the twist you want.

Most of the guys loading the 110 tipped TSX at max were running 2.3" COL in a special mag in a SPC II.
Cant remember who made the mag though but even that was not jammed. I never tried to find the lands on my dads mini or my AR, but I think that would be good to know in your case.

Pops at 88YO loves his 6.8 mini and got 2 deer this year already.

Seems like the SAMMI reamers for the 6.8 have a long throat and the 6.8 SPC II is the longest. My thinking is to go with a "short throat" so I can jam the bullets like I do in my BR rounds but that's just from what I've been use to. The 6.8 might take a jump and have no problems so I'am still up in the air as far as to how to get the chamber cut. On the AR platform the longer throat seems to work best as far as keeping the pressure down but how will the long or short throat differ in a bolt gun? That's where I am right now.
Should see dies, shell holders and bullets some time this week. Load a couple of dummy rounds and think on it.
And it looks like there's not too many 6.8 bolt guns out there so there's not much info (been there,done that) to go by. Lots of AR stuff but in a bolt, few and far between.
I guess the only way would be to get a chamber cut to a short throat, try it and see how it works then lengthen the throat if needed??? And it will be a "one time cut" so it wouldn't be worth investing in my own reamer. I'll keep looking and rerading. And no use getting in a hurry. It'll happen when it happens. I'll keep you posted as to how things are going, Mike.

[handirifle]

You're gettin some good feedback on this one. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.

I'm sittin here wondering what a 243 case, necked up to 6.8 (ie. 270/308 or 270-08), would produce? Since the 243 beats the 6.8 by only a 100 or 150fps with the 85gr bullets, going to a larger base bullet (6mm to 6.8mm) ought to net another 100 to 150 more. In other words it should push the 85gr 6.8 TSX to just near 3400fps. Maybe better.

I imagine with the 100's or 110's a better gain would show in at about 3100fps.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

I had a talk with PT&G about reamers today but they went in a different direction.
They talked 22/6.8 but I want the 6.8 SPC in it's natural form. Not necked down to something else. Sounds like a real killer as far as a varmint round buy not my choice. (at least not right now )
Everybody talks 6.8 in a AR but not much bolt gun info. I want to see for myself and compare recoil to the .223 and .308 and accuracy.
From what I've heard, the 6.8 SPC SAMMI might be in line with the bullets I'am planning on working with. I'll know more when I get my dies and bullets, load a few dummy rounds and can get some actual measurements.

[tammons]

There is a guy here that just built a 270-08. It should be a good round. A lot of good hunting bullets in that caliber.

As far as a 85 gr out of a 270-08, I ran it through QL and you should get about 3300-3400 out of it with a 20" barrel depending ont the twist. A slow twist would be better. A fast twist will show pressure early. That said I got 3100-3150 or so out of the 6.8 spc with a 20" barrel. Its a very efficient cartridge. Not that much difference in killing power really.

A better combo IMO would be the 110 tipped TSX in the 270-08. Super hard hitting bullet.
You should be able to get 3000-3100 with of that bullet. That said I am getting 3150 out of my 308
with 130 gr tipped TSX bullets.

In straght 270 wincheter fed prem ammo with that bullet is pushing 3400 fps.

I just loaded up some 270 weatherby shells with some left over barnes 85 gr bullets to try out on hogs.

Best I could get out of it was 3750 fps over a ton of powder. thought I could get 3800 +, but I dont want to burn up a barrel chasing 100 fps. 3 shots leaves you with a very hot barrel as-is.
Have yet to try it out on hogs though.

You're gettin some good feedback on this one. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.

I'm sittin here wondering what a 243 case, necked up to 6.8 (ie. 270/308 or 270-08), would produce? Since the 243 beats the 6.8 by only a 100 or 150fps with the 85gr bullets, going to a larger base bullet (6mm to 6.8mm) ought to net another 100 to 150 more. In other words it should push the 85gr 6.8 TSX to just near 3400fps. Maybe better.

I imagine with the 100's or 110's a better gain would show in at about 3100fps.

[tammons]

Just keep in mind, IMO I think the 6.8 spc is a superb hunting round, but if I was going to built a target rifle off of a 2.25 col cartridge I would build a 22ppc, 6ppc or 6.5 grendel (really a 6.5 PPC) or one of the BR cartridges like the 6mmBR would be even better.

Forget PTG and call Pacific tool. They probably have a 6.8 reamer of any sort chamber on the shelf.
I forget the owners name but a very nice guy.

As far as why nobody talks about the 6.8 in bolt guns, is probably because there are not that many around.
I remember being in a gun shop 2 years ago where 2 guys were drooling over a remington in 6.8. It should be more popular, but I think its mostly because its new, an AR cartridge and people are not familiar with it and there are so many other rounds that will do what it does although with more recoil. The word is getting out though, especially as a good hog cartridge.

As far as accuracy, with a good barrel, bullet and right load it will be as accurate as anything else.
Match bullets are scarce in 6.8 but that might be changing.

Recoil is light.
I think its a good bit lighter than a 243, but that was in an 6.8 automatic.
IMO its the hardest hitting low recoil cartridge around.
Like I said above, my dad at 88YO loves his 6.8 mini. No recoil pad on that gun.
I put him behind a 22-250 savage and he thought the recoil was too harsh.
He has had shoulder operations on both sholders so he needs a light
recoil rifle. He originally got a 223 savage, but when he tried out my 6.8 AR
he opted for a 6.8 and the 223 is gathering dust.

Personally I would at least go for a spc II chamber.
The only real difference is about .01 in freebore.
That small amount makes a big difference in pressure though.
Probably about 2k alone.
A DMR chamber with a 13 twist 3 groove should get you about 5k, or the ability to safely load up to around 60K as long as you use SSA brass.

Or just make sure you get the barrel twist right.

You can always ream it to an improved chamber later.
You might want to go here and get some opinions on chamber, barrel twist, freebore, jamming bullets etc.

http://68forums.com/forums/index.php

I had a talk with PT&G about reamers today but they went in a different direction.
They talked 22/6.8 but I want the 6.8 SPC in it's natural form. Not necked down to something else. Sounds like a real killer as far as a varmint round buy not my choice. (at least not right now )
Everybody talks 6.8 in a AR but not much bolt gun info. I want to see for myself and compare recoil to the .223 and .308 and accuracy.
From what I've heard, the 6.8 SPC SAMMI might be in line with the bullets I'am planning on working with. I'll know more when I get my dies and bullets, load a few dummy rounds and can get some actual measurements.

[BillPa]

"There is a guy here that just built a 270-08."

LOL...well not "Just" built, I've had it and the improved version for a few years. You might be thinking of BobT.

Ya know, I don't want to try to change one's direction, but a bolt gun in a small 27 bore the wildcat 270-308 is a more practical and much easier choice. For its original intended purpose I guess the SPC made sense, but to me not in a bolt gun.

The 270-08 uses the standard .473" bolt face, works through any action made for the 308 family of cartridges without any changes, many more choices in components and is still going when the SPC is out of breath. It will all but reach 270 Win performance with the same weight bullets burning on the average of 10-15 grains less powder in the process. In other words, you can load it down to the SPC performance or load it up to closely approximate 270 Win. ballistics within 100 FPS or so.

Making brass is a simple matter of simply running 243, 260, 7-08 or 308 brass in a 270-08 die, Win,Rem, Lapua or anything else. CH4D make dies and you can use the standard 308 family GO-NO GO gage.

I guess I may have considered a SPC if I already didn't have a 270-08 and its better brother the improved, but even today if I wanted a small 27 bore in a bolt gun it would still be my choice. Both my rifles are on Mod 70 carbine actions, 22" 12 twist barrels and pleasant to shoot even with full power loads. My one 9 year old grandson blasted 20 rounds out of the improved a few weeks ago and didn't blink an eye. His only complaint? Out of ammo!

Kiff's print
[img width=600 height=442]http://i39.tinypic.com/2q313ls.jpg[/img]

Now if I could only have some success convincing one rifle manufacturer in particular who's name starts with an "S" to standardize it as their own cartridge. All they need is a stupid reamer and submit the specs, they have or make everything else already. People would be standing three deep wanting rifles in the new latest and greatest. ;D

Bill

[Nor Cal Mikie]

tammons: Just in case you didn't know for sure, PT&G and Pacific Tool are one in the same.
The 270-08 sounds like a good round but, it's "not" a 6.8 SPC.
I've got the BR rounds to play with but I want to see what I can do with the 6.8 SPC in it's nautral form. No shoulder angle change, no necked down or up to something else, just the straight 6.8 SPC. And it'll be on a Savage action. ;D
Got dies and bullets today. Need to send out a couple of cases and have them "modified" by Hornady so I can get the "actual" chamber length.
Need a shell holder for my Lee Auto Prime that should be here before the end of the week. Dummy rounds will help me decide what chamber I want cut then it's load them up and go shoot something.

[10fp]

just remember the reason the spc2 chamber was created is to fix the problems from pressure in the original design, they had alot of early pressure spikes and the extra lead that the spc2 chamber has alleviates this problem. if you plan to reload for it and are going to try for more performance then you really should stay away from sammi spec. if your just going to shoot the lower pressure stuff from remington and horniday ok, butif you want to run the ssa combat loaded ammo its potentally going to be bad news in the standard sammi chamber.


just my .02
whatever you do have fun and be safe.

[tammons]

I agree with 10FP. Just get a spc II chamber.

.01" longer freebore will make zero difference in accuracy, but will allow you to shoot SSA combat and hot hand loads. Besides its a bolt gun without a 2.25" col limit so you can hang the bullets out longer if you want.

I had great results with 110gr tipped TSX hot handloads on hogs.
Always 1 shot kills.

That said I ran out of TSX ammo while I was tring to get my dads mini to shoot right,
so I bought a couple of boxes of 6.8 remi ammo until I could order more bullets and brass.

I ran into a 125# pig on our neighbors land and had to shoot that damn thing about 5-6 times before it finally dropped.

Billpa makes a lot of sense too, but if you want a 6.8 spc you want a 6.8 spc. Loaded with barnes or accubond bulets it will down anything a 270-08 will out to about 350 yards.

[handirifle]

This is a good thread. I have thought as well, about a bolt gun in the 6.8 and or the 270-08. I ran some ballistics on the 270-08 vs the 6.8 and I'd say the 6.8 will hold it's own to 250yds, but definately not 350. It just doesn't retain the speed necessary for reliable bullet expansion. The 85gr requires 2100fps and the 110 requires 1900.

The 6.8 seems like it would be a great beginners round in that it provides excellent power, especially in the 200yd and closer category, at ranges the beginners should be shooting anyway. Not saying it should be limited to them at all.

I was personally suprised at close the SPC II chambering gets to the 243 ballistics, with the 85 and 100gr loads. Pretty amazing really.

When you step up to the 270-08 the 6.8 will fall behind very fast, espoecially when you go up past the 110gr bullets. Remember there are heavier bullets out there, all the way to 160gr +. The best overall performance would come, I think, from a 130-140gr bullet in the 270-08 version. Something I don't think the 6.8 can even load, at least not at AR length restrictions. But it, like many of it's kind, will fall back faster with heavier bullets.

Not to digress, but the 6.8 will and is a great light for caliber cartridge. In a bolt gun I bet it is much like shooting a 223 but with a lot more power.

[tammons]

The tipped bullets open faster than the non tipped variety.

The only thing you will find on the barnes site is the tip buys you another 100 yards over a non tipped bullet. The general concensus is the tipped variety needs about 1700 fps to open reliably, but it not exact science.

That said if you hit a bone no matter what speed it will start to open, and it opens faster on its trip through the body cavity than the non tipped variety.

The tipped bullets are so much better, I actually expect them to phase out the non tipped barnes bullets.
I dont even use the non tipped version if the tipped is available.

With a 20" barrel and a hot load which would work in a dmr 13 twist 3 groove with no problem I was getting about 2750 + out of the 110 gr TTSX over 29.5 of 10X, but that is a really hot load in my spcII 11 twist.
Actually with a DMR chamber and 3 groove 13 twist you could probably hit 2800 if you played around with more powders.
You can definately hit 2800+ with the 110 gr accubond since its a shorter bullet.
At any rate 2750 FPS gets you to 450 yards at 1780 fps.

I forget the guys name over on arfcom, but he killed a 5x elk at 380 yards with a 6.8 spc and a 110 gr accubond. I think he was running at about 2830 + but cant really remember. At any rate he figured he was getting 1000 fpe at 380 yards.
Got full penetration and found the bullet under the skin on the other side.

There are quite a few people using 130 gr bullets at about 2400-2500 but its not best suited for the 6.8.
I never even shot any except for some Tubbs FF bullets.
That said the tipped 110 gr barnes bullet is slightly longer than a 130 gr nosler partition bullet so it takes a lot of case space too. Most all of the 6.8 SPC hot loads are very compressed loads.

It is a good beginners gun, for sure. Its a hard hitting round with very little recoil, and if that is what you are after its a perfect fit for hunting.

There are always better calibers, especially for hog, elk, bear etc, but all with more recoil.

This is a good thread. I have thought as well, about a bolt gun in the 6.8 and or the 270-08. I ran some ballistics on the 270-08 vs the 6.8 and I'd say the 6.8 will hold it's own to 250yds, but definately not 350. It just doesn't retain the speed necessary for reliable bullet expansion. The 85gr requires 2100fps and the 110 requires 1900.

The 6.8 seems like it would be a great beginners round in that it provides excellent power, especially in the 200yd and closer category, at ranges the beginners should be shooting anyway. Not saying it should be limited to them at all.

I was personally suprised at close the SPC II chambering gets to the 243 ballistics, with the 85 and 100gr loads. Pretty amazing really.

When you step up to the 270-08 the 6.8 will fall behind very fast, espoecially when you go up past the 110gr bullets. Remember there are heavier bullets out there, all the way to 160gr +. The best overall performance would come, I think, from a 130-140gr bullet in the 270-08 version. Something I don't think the 6.8 can even load, at least not at AR length restrictions. But it, like many of it's kind, will fall back faster with heavier bullets.

Not to digress, but the 6.8 will and is a great light for caliber cartridge. In a bolt gun I bet it is much like shooting a 223 but with a lot more power.

[MAGNUS]

I have been looking at the 6.8 and now the 270-308.....

But the 270 AI SAVAGE is the round i would personaly go for here, it almost matches the 270 win performance.

It also seems like a better alternative for a bolt gun.

[tammons]

not just go with a 270 WSM ??

[MAGNUS]

Sure,

but the .270 AI savage is a smaller case and seeing as the 6.8 is also small and he is looking for a bolt gun platform it seemed more suitable.

And i personaly love the 250 AI and 270 AI

[tammons]

I was posting the question more for you.
The WSM is a short fat case so it should be more efficient than a 270 AI case not that it really matters though.

People like what they like.

I was going to build a 270 WSM, and then I thought geez, my dad has a deluxe weatherby
270 weatherby magnum I can shoot any time I want !!

I loaded up some 85 gr TSX pills on top of a #$%^load of powder and got 3700 +. I expected to get more.
Maybe with a different powder, but 3700 is fast enough. Provides a nice warm barrel for a hand warmer.

[MAGNUS]

Its a good one that question...

from my research the 270 WSM is just faster that the .270 WIN and the 270 AI savage is just a little slower than the 270 WIN.

So i slighty tilt to the favour of less powder for almost equal speed/velocity or flat shooting and less recoil etc. Having said that i still like the 270 WSM and am actually thinking of getting/building one.

By the way how did your 6.5 grendal compare to your 6.8 spc after all was said and done?

[tammons]

Thats another half dozen one or the other.

I will say for some reason I depise Bill A's death grip on the 6.5G and 50 beo trade mark.
If he would lighten up a bit, he would probably sell a lot more uppers, ammo etc.
I paid $50 for a set of 6.5G Lee dies.

Right now 50 beowulf ammo is non existant.

On to the comparison...

The 6.5 grendel is really a 6.5 PPC. There was another name for it too.
I think the case was slightly modified but not 100% on that.

IMO its a better long range target round than the 6.8 mostly because of bullets.
I think they both hold about the same amount of powder, but the 6.8 is a
more efficient shell for some reason. Probably the bigger bore.

The 123 senecar is a good bullet for the 6.5 G.
Still the COL is too limited by the AR mag length.
What would be ideal is to hang the bullet way out and shoot 130-140 gr bergers.

Its still a very small shell.
You really need a 24" barrel to get the most out of a 6.5G.
IMO the 6.8 feeds better in an AR.

If I am going to lug around a heavy and cumbersome 24" barreled AR, I would rather have a 25WSSM, 6.5 WSSM or a 300OSSM that has a lot more FPS and FPE, especially the 300OSSM in FPE. It basically returns 30-06 performace form an AR15.

The 6.8 SPC is a great hard hitting light recoil hunting round.
It will keep up with the grendel most of the way to 1000 yds, depending on how hot it is loaded and the bullet.

It does much better with 12" 16" 20" inch barrels.

As far as in a bolt gun, I dont know.
I think the 6.5 G would work better especially since you are not limited to 2.25 col
but for strictly a hunter bolt gun I would rather have a 6.8 SPC especially since its easier to find ammo.
You wont see 6.5G ammo on store shelves any time soon.

There was a guy over at the 6mmbR site that built a 6.5 G 1000 yd gun for cometition. Needs more powder IMO.

Could use more light weight bullets for hunting, plinking.

Then again why not just build a 6.5 lapua or any other of the excellent 6.5 cartridges if a bolt gun.

Thats one thing about the 6.8 is you have a variety of light hard hitting bullets which makes it interesting. 90 gr TNT, 85, 100 (soon), 110, 130 gr barnes bullets etc.

Link to the 6.5G 1000 yd F-class gun.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek027.html

[MAGNUS]

So your saying ignoring availabilty and monopoly etc. that the 6.5 G is better in a bolt gun hunting wise?

Also what do you think about a 25 cal based on the SPC or PPC cases?

Oh yeah i forgot to add to the earlier post that the 270 AI savage is relatively short and fat thats why it almost equals the 270 WIN.

[tammons]

I think a 6.5G makes a better target gun, or if you will build a 24-28" barreled hunter its a good one.
Probably better for a long range hunter using long bullets.

That said a 6mmBR is a better target round than 6.5G and so on.

For a short barreled rifle like 16-19" out to 350 yards I would want a 6.8 using TSX bullets in the 85-110 gr area.
Its an efficient round.

About 3 years ago when I had my grendel AR you did not have a lot of light projectiles in 6.5mm. Now I see there are all sorts including barnes is coming out with a 100 gr tipped TSX and that will be an excellent bullet in 6.5.

Maybe with the right powder you could get the FPS up with a short barrel. The PPC case is an inherently accurate case.

If you are interested lothar walther makes savage 6.5G barrels, but calls them something else like 6.5 CSS due to licensing. When I called years ago, they had some barrels left over from when they got screwed on a deal. He was selling them for about $225 each. Wish I would have gotten one then. Now I think they sell them for about $350.

I dont know. I never could get into 25cal.
I think its been done by somebody on both cases though.
You would lose some efficiency.

I did have a 25 WSSM, but the brass is way too hard and quality is poor.

That said there are so many good 6.5, 270 and 25 cal rounds out there, it does not make a whole lot of sense going through the hassle of custom barrels etc unless you want a hard hitting round with less recoil or maybe if you also have an AR in the same caliber.

The one that is missing is a short action 473 face 270.

I just like the 6.8 SPC myself, so that will be my excuse.

As to the 270-08 its probably just a more efficient cartridge then the longer 270 win. I think they are about the same diameter.

So your saying ignoring availabilty and monopoly etc. that the 6.5 G is better in a bolt gun hunting wise?

Also what do you think about a 25 cal based on the SPC or PPC cases?

Oh yeah i forgot to add to the earlier post that the 270 AI savage is relatively short and fat thats why it almost equals the 270 WIN.

[handirifle]

I looked into the 270 WSM (for bolts and the 25cal for the AR)and the big red flag for me, was availability of brass and ammo. Plus you really limit the number of rounds in the magazine with the WSM rounds.

The Grendel seems to have an edge on paper but the OP specified for hunting, it seemed and I do not read of near as much success in that arena.

These two rounds could very well be like the initial offerings of the 6mm Rem and the 243 Win. Depends on who does it and how they're marketed.

A MAJOR plus for the 270-08 or the AI version, is 308 brass (or 243 or 260 Rem, you get the idea) is everywhere, and in many levels of quality.

The big reason I thought od the 270 variation, was the availability of light for caliber, quality bullets, that are already proven afield.

In reality, the little 6.8 does not seem to be undergunned for any deerr sized critter, for SURE 200yds or less, and maybe farther, depending on the load, the gun and the shooter. It's like a 30-30 without the recoil.

I hope the OP starts a trend. As I said before this is an interesting post.

[sinman]

just make a 270x47L, Great brass, should be very efficent and i am betting it will be very accurate and it should should be great with the 85gr bullet. And it would feed great from any savage.

[MAGNUS]

Only if i can call it a .270 savage ;D

[sinman]

haha i am sure you can call it what ever you want, i am sure there aren't to many out there. I would probably call it a 6.8 Sin haha

[1Shot]

...Bob T already has 1 done in 270-08 al...He likes it..