Reply With QuoteDon't forget the .338 Norma!
I see a lot of interest in the 338 lapua what is the advantage over the other 2 338s I see only negatives need for larger action high cost of brass and no velocity advantage enlighten me please Fred
Don't forget the .338 Norma!
It's better to shoot for the moon and hit the fencepost than to shoot for the fencepost and hit the ground!
...The .338 edge will do 1500yds. pretty easy...If you want more just step up to a 50 cal..Tracer rounds have about a 1800yd burn rate..lol....Lets you see where it's going...lol...
The biggest advantage that the 338 Edge has over the Lapua and Norma is that it can be safely built on a Savage.
The reason is the size of the bolt head. The Edge has a regular magnum, the other two have the larger big Weatherby sized bolhead.
"Muzzle velocity is a depreciating asset, not unlike a new car, but BC, like diamonds, is forever."-German A. Salazar
The following writeup was taken from Long Range Shooter.
I have several Weatherby cases on the Savage. Check out the price of the Weatherby empty cases! Nosler makes a great 300RUM case for converting to the Edge AT way less than Weatherby or Norma brass!
Neal
There is a great deal of interest in .338? caliber cartridges for long range shooting. This is specifically due to high BC mass produced bullets available. While it takes a great deal of powder to push a 250gr to 300gr bullet at acceptable velocities for long range shooting, the performance has trumped the cost in the minds of many shooters (not to mention military and law enforcement world-wide). Recently, the most popular long range 338’s are the 338 Remington Ultra Mag, 338 Lapua mag, and 338 Edge. The first two are self explanatory, the Edge is a 338×300 Remington Ultra Mag. It is most commonly referred to as the 338?Edge” due to Shawn Carlock of Defensive Edge who is the biggest proponent of the cartridge and has, by far, the most experience with it. There are some other 338’s for long range, but I’ll mostly focus one these three for the sake of keeping this brief. These cartridges can be used in factory long actions and make a repeater Even when using long, high BC bullets, like the 300gr SMK!
One common misconception is that these cartridges are end all, be all, 1000yd lasers. While the 1000yd performance is excellent, there are much more efficient ways of getting equal and in some cases better ballistic performance at 1000yds and less. For example you could fire a 168gr Berger VLD from a 7mm mag at 3100fps and have an expected drop of 22.25 MOA and drift of 5.25 MOA for a 10mph cross-wind at 1000yds. A 338 Lapua mag firing a 250gr Scenar at 2960 would have a drop of 24.25 MOA and 5.25 MOA windage for the same range/conditions. A Lapua mag firing a 300gr SMK at 2850fps would have a drop of 25 MOA and 4.75 MOA windage for the same range/conditions. If you want to see how these 338’s stack up to other cartridges, run the numbers through a ballistic calculator. For those who take large game at or near 1000yds the energy provided by these cartridges is ideal. Where the 338’s really shine ballistically is well beyond the 1000yd mark. They have been used effectively and with accuracy out to 1 mile (1760yds) and beyond. Two of the major obstacles to shooting at extreme range are going sub-sonic (or even trans-sonic) and wind drift. A major part of the solution to both of these, is a higher than usual BC’s. Let’s consider some of the long range bullets available for the 338’s…
250gr Sierra Match king BC: .587 (above 2150fps) .606 (between 2149 and 1700fps)
250gr Lapua Lock Base BC: .662
250gr Lapua Scenar BC: .675
300gr Sierra Match king BC: .768
The popularity of this caliber will only insure that more high BC bullets will be developed in the future. Berger will be releasing two new bullets for the .338?, one of which is rumored to weigh 300gr and have a BC of around .855!
There is great debate about the velocities these cartridges can produce in relation to each other. I do not have the resources available to build and compare each of these cartridges with identical components so we’re left to speculate on what info is available. My Sierra Reloading Manual uses a 26? test barrel for both the 338 RUM and the 338 Lapua. It gives essentially identical maximum velocities for the bullets in question, although the RUM was reaching them with a higher percentage of the powders tested. This seems counter intuitive because the capacities of these cartridges are virtually the same and the Lapua is rated at a maximum pressure of 69,000 psi, while the RUM is rated at a maximum of 64,500 psi (Vihta Vuori Reloading manual). I can’t confirm what pressures Sierra used to test these cartridges, but the data is scientifically acquired. The respective velocities of factory loaded ammo for these two cartridges would suggest that the Lapua has the velocity advantage. There is much debate in internet forums of how these cartridges stack up. The most popular consensus (from what I’ve gathered) is the 338 Edge is the fastest followed by the Lapua mag, with the 338 RUM not too far behind. I would argue that this is the most sensible conclusion since it follows the general capacity/pressure model (please do not take this to mean I view forum opinions as scientific data). The debate is somewhat irrelevant, since we’re talking about a spread of less than 100fps between them. The barrel’s design and length could possibly have a greater impact of MV than the cartridge itself. If you’re like me, the fastest load you test for a particular cartridge may not be the one you use. Other factors weigh in like accuracy (low ES and SD) as well as temperature sensitivity etc. It would be difficult to speculate what cartridge would provide the highest velocity while remaining “accurate”.
Many wonder about how long a barrel should be for these cartridges. From what I can gather 28?-30? is about optimal. This gives you the MV’s you expect and allows you to keep the weight manageable. Some have used up to 34? barrels and are claim higher MV’s and better ballistic performance. I’ve heard that going from 28? to 30? only nets and extra 50fps. It may not seem like much for the weight of two inches of barrel. For some it may be worth it. Depending on how far you want to shoot your rifle, an extra 50fps could be just what you need. If 28? barrels and the weight that comes with them is unattractive to you, I’d recommend looking into other cartridges (or re-evaluate your long range goals). There is no point in wasting powder in the form of muzzle blast. These are large cartridges that use slow burning powders and require long barrels.
The biggest difference in my opinion between these cartridges is reloading cost. They’ll use around the same amount of powder, and the bullets are the same, but the brass is another story. Brass for the Lapua is commonly found for around $195 for 100pc. The 338 RUM, and 338 Edge (wich uses 300 RUM brass) can be had for around $80 for 100pc. This is a big difference in reloading cost, although a straight across comparison would probably not be fair to the Lapua. It’s quite likely that the Lapua brand brass (one of only two brands currently available for the 338 Lapua) would last a couple more firings compared to the others. It’s also notable that to build a rifle in 338 lapua a standard magnum bolt face would not work, requiring a little more work by your gun smith (my smith only charged me around $30 for this, but your mileage may vary). The 338 Edge definitely gives the most bang for your buck. Some claim the Lapua is more accurate. If this has any merritt, it’s likely due to higher brass quality available for the Lapua. If one does a quick search you’ll quickly find excellent long range accuracy can be had by the RUM and Edge. It is my opinion that the smith you select to build your rifle, will by far have the greatest influence of the accuracy potential. That being said, I personally use Lapua brass when it’s available for a cartridge I’m loading.
Some other 338 cartridges that may catch your attention and deserve your consideration include: 338×378 Wby mag, 338 Kahn, 338×416 Rigby Improved, 338 Snipe Tac, 338 Allen Magnum, 338 Titan, and others. Any of these will ballistically outperform the RUM, Lapua, and Edge.
I built a 338 RUM on a Savage Target action for my shooting/hunting buddy. This is a 2500 yard cartridge. The rifle zero is 1000 yards (in other words, we don't shoot unless the intended target is 800 yards or further).
With a 32" Rock Creek barrel, 300 gr SMK's, a dose of Retumbo, and a little luck....one shot kills at 768, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1368, 1600 are obtainable...at an honest 2950 fps. YOU will need to practice. YOU will need to spend some cash on a high end scope (he uses a Nightforce) and rings/mounts to go with. I would HIGHLY recommend a GOOD muzzle brake (I broke the barrel in....15 rounds...I had a bruise from the crick of my elbow to almost the center of my chest....while wearing a heavy Carhart AND a recoil pad on top of the coat....I am 6' and 270 lbs.)
WITH the muzzle brake, this has less recoil than a 308 running 168 or 175 gr bullets.
Don't plan on packing the rifle - this one weighs 26 pounds.
Dollar for dollar....I would build the 338 RUM again. Has exceeded all expectations that I had for the rifle/caliber. Until you see a large deer fall, with the grass still in it's mouth, at 1200 yards...it is unreal.
thanks guys lots of good info Fred
First post. Does anybody know where i can get a 7 stw or a 338 rum new or used in a savage light weight ? Is the new accustock any good or should i get a after market stock ? I allreadey have a 16 pound 338ax for long range out to a mile. I am looking for a light rifle to carrie . Thanks for any help.
You may want to go to savageshooters.com and post your request. We proud 338 followers aren't apt to get rid of our 338's. Who knows, there may be someone out there that has an extra.
If I were you I would go to any local pawn shop and start looking for a 7 mag and have it re-chambered.
Simple enough as well to go to gunbroker.com and buy a Stevens in 300 mag for $300-$350. Sell the barrel and buy a new 7STW, 7RUM (my Choice) 338 after market barrel.
Accu-stock. Real pain with this system to put on thicker recoil lugs. AT $700. for an Accu-stock I would certainly go with the Stevens and purchase a $300. stock at sharpshooterssupply.com or any number of stock venders.
Neal
Thanks neal. Is your 338 a altramag ? What does it weigh and how long of barrel ?
Neal just called gun shop they said a 116fcss 7mm accutriger and accustock $755.00 so its not $700.00 for a stock. ???
338 I believe Neal meant $700 or more for an accustock gun in your caliber and a stevens can be had on sale for $200 or slightly more.
Yes, $700 for the gun, not the stock. You'd probably have to start a new post for Neal to list his 338(s). :D
Thanks Iwink
[img width=600 height=450]http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk460/emeraldislandlover/Prettypicture.jpg[/img]
The 338 Edge is 8 pounds even with 19" barrel. This photo represents a portion of where my 338 travels have taken me the past 5 years. 2950 Av velocity with .550 BC Accubond 225 grain. I have been much faster. No reason to go faster for my application as I won't shoot past 600 yards. AT 600 yards the energy is roughly 2000 pounds.
In these short barrels the Edge beats the 338 X378 Weatherby by a noticeable margin.
Speaking with Effie this morning, the Mod 10 BAS in the 338 Lapua release projected shortly after the shot show. No definite date set yet. I can purchase an Accu-stock from her for $150.!
I was also told and am ordering as soon is I get JIM on the phone, Undesignated long action,left bolt,detachable Magazine Stainless action for $570.. Blue $544.. EEEEHAAA new project looming!
Neal
Elmer Keith would take notice as well!
;D
Three 44s
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