Hypothetical Question...

[fgw_in_fla]

Remember, this is hypothetical in situation.

What'll carry further in distance?
We're talking 30.06 and using a propellant that it's happy with (could be 4064... could be 4350).

Does a lighter bullet (like a 125gr) get more distance with it's known max load - or would a 200gr bullet carry further?

Does this come down to that 'ol mass and speed thing or is it lighter weight & a blast of power behind it have less resistance to overcome?
Remeber, this is hypothetical to satisfy a little intellectual curiosity. I would like to know if you had a 30.06, fired two rounds... One has max load with a 125gr - the other max load with a 200gr.
Open, flat ground, no wind, sunny day, 72 degrees. Perfect shooting conditions.

Like I said earlier, looking to satisfy my curiosity. Which one would achieve the greater distance?

Thanks for tolerated my assinine question.

??? Curious ??? Frank ??? in ??? Fla. ???

[thomae]

This sounds like a question you would see on the midterm or final of somebody's mechanical engineering college-level dynamics or physics course! The only thing I can think of is that, in the end, I know it all boils down f=Ma. Force = Mass x accelleration. I am looking forward to this thread. ;D

[GaCop]

Would not the lighter bullet slow so quickly that it's maximum range (trajectory) would be shorter than the heavier 200 grain bullet? The heavier bullet, being able to retain velocity better at longer range would outdistance the 125 gr bullet. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;D

[Celtic Warrior]

Heavier goes further and yes it is that 'ol mass and speed thing. But it gets a little complicated if you also consider the bullet's form factor.

[Blue Avenger]

LOL at what angle are we throwing said illusion. gravity and less speed is going to pull the slower, heaver projectile to earth sooner. :)

[Celtic Warrior]

Hypothetically

just ran this through my hand held:

.308 168g HRN A-Max @ 2424fps goes subsonic at 860 yds (1115.0fps)
.308 208g HRN A-max @ 2424fps goes subsonic at 1210 yds (1118.5fps) < different form factor

Which one falls out of the sky first?

[DanSavage]

Usually the heavier bullets have a higher ballistic coefficiancy which will enable it to slip through the air and carry further.

[handirifle]

LOL at what angle are we throwing said illusion. gravity and less speed is going to pull the slower, heaver projectile to earth sooner. :)

Nope. Gravity pulls objects at the same rate, regardless of weight. An example, aim 2 identical guns, same caliber as the OP described. Both aimed horizontal with the ground. Fired at the exact same time, BOTH bullets will hit the ground at the SAME time. The lighter faster one, will hit much farther out than the heavier one, but at the same time. It just gets there quicker. This is a gravity ONLY example
My take on all this is both will travel the same distance, but the heavier one will retain its mass or energy better.

[pitsnipe]

LOL at what angle are we throwing said illusion. gravity and less speed is going to pull the slower, heaver projectile to earth sooner. :)

Nope. Gravity pulls objects at the same rate, regardless of weight. An example, aim 2 identical guns, same caliber as the OP described. Both aimed horizontal with the ground. Fired at the exact same time, BOTH bullets will hit the ground at the SAME time. The lighter faster one, will hit much farther out than the heavier one, but at the same time. It just gets there quicker. This is a gravity ONLY example
My take on all this is both will travel the same distance, but the heavier one will retain its mass or energy better.

Yes. And thus the one with the higher BC will travel further due to less resistance. Gravity will effect it as well, but since it maintains its velocity longer it will travel further.

[Celtic Warrior]

....and now we're talking form factor, which is in part due to mass. The heavier bullet can't get bigger around only longer and that along with other factors goes to form factor which increases BC.

[CJ in WY]

Providing the bullets have the same design the 200 grain will not only go farther but will pass the spot the 125 hits the ground sooner.......I aint a rocket scientist=just a red-neck who has BTDT in actual field trials. My bad I cheated ;D

[fgw_in_fla]

WOW!!!

I'm almost sorry I asked. All of your answers are undoubtedly excellent BUT...

Y'all are reading too much into the equasion. Allow me to simplify.

I'd like to know if it's better for me to use a heavy bullet (ie 200gr or 225gr Nosler BT) or a lighter bullet (ie 125gr Nosler BT) on the 400 yd firing line.

I don't know which is why I'm asking.

SO........ ??? ...... Disregarding all the physics, calculus, Einstein's Theory and anything else that may cause variations. What's a better WEIGHT bullet for me to use with my 30.06 on the 400yd line?

I didn't mean to confuse the issue with the facts ::)

Thanks in advance.

Frank "Lost in the equasion" in Fla

[earl39]

SO........ ??? ...... Disregarding all the physics, calculus, Einstein's Theory and anything else that may cause variations. What's a better WEIGHT bullet for me to use with my 30.06 on the 400yd line?

I didn't mean to confuse the issue with the facts ::)

Thanks in advance.

Frank "Lost in the equasion" in Fla

400 yards target shooting with a 30 caliber i say use the 155 target bullets made for target shooting or the 168's.

[tyler.woodard04]

400 yards was not brought it. For that shoot the most accurate bullet your gun will shoot

[Grit #1]

Get a Hornaday reloading manual # 3 like I have, and look in the trajectory tables in the back, and your question will be answered.
Best regards,
Grit

[hcpyro13]

make it easy on yourself, google. the JBM ballistics calculator. They have a calculator for max range including angles of incident and flight time, it really makes you think about what's beyond your target.

-J

[Blue Avenger]

Hypothetically

just ran this through my hand held:

.308 168g HRN A-Max @ 2424fps goes subsonic at 860 yds (1115.0fps)
.308 208g HRN A-max @ 2424fps goes subsonic at 1210 yds (1118.5fps) < different form factor

Which one falls out of the sky first?

but you still have to live in the realm of pressure limitations to said cartridge and the speed will not be the same for different weights. :) I love monkey wrenches!

[Jamie]

At 400 yards I agree with Tyler, use the most accurate one. B.C. won't come into play too significantly at that range.

Now for the rest.....

Yep, if the barrels are level they will hit the ground at the same time, only the distances will be different. But..............we never hold the barrel completely level when we shoot so we impart an angle on the bullets. This angle keeps the bullets in the air longer (throwing a baseball front center field vs from pitchers mound). Because of ballistic coefficients the longer pointy-er bullet (not always the heaviest-- 220 round nose is not as aerodynamic than 210 grain VLDs) will not loose it's speed as quickly as the short stubby bullet. The longer the two bullets are in the air the greater the drop in speed of the stubby. Because the longer one doesn't drop it's speed as quickly it travels further in the given time frame (time frame being relative term for time of flight to 1000 yards in this case but it fluid) This starts to show up around 600 and is really noticeable at 1000 yards.

Interesting to see some of the replies.

[CJ in WY]

I'd like to know if it's better for me to use a heavy bullet (ie 200gr or 225gr Nosler BT) or a lighter bullet (ie 125gr Nosler BT) on the 400 yd firing line.

The short answer is YES
The real answer will be revieled by your 30-06 It may like everthing you put through it and 400 yards aint worth looseing any sleep over OR it may be like most of mine where i want to shoot one bullet and the dang gun has a different plan! For 400 yards in a factory gun I'd start with a cheap flat based 150 grainer and see what happens.

[fgw_in_fla]

Thanks for all of your answers. And the physics & ballistics lessons in some cases. I have the opportunity to use an area that's very flat, very treeless & very free to go shooting at. I figured I'd set up an area where I can learn more about how my guns will work on longer distances. 400 yards will be the shortest distance. WHile I like to think I've mastered up to 2oo to 300 yds with my guns, deep down I know I've still got a lot to learn AND with time & health not being as co-operative, I knew I could rely on my Brothers Of The Barrel Nut for any tech support.

I say thanks to ye holders of knowledge of the Switch Barrel Thunder Stick!

Don't be surprised if I'm brimming with really stooooopid questions over the next few months.... ::)

Frank in Fla

[Senderofan]

Frank:

I think you'll also find, at increasingly longer ranges, that ( Generally ) the heavier bullets are inpacted less by the wind than their lighter bullets in that caliber. You'll notice that guys shooting 1000 yard with .308 Win. are generally using 175gr. and up( the exception is the 155gr. Palma.) The 168's are a great bullet...but lose something between the 600 yard line and the 1000.

Good Luck,

Wayne

[Celtic Warrior]

Hypothetically

just ran this through my hand held:

.308 168g HRN A-Max @ 2424fps goes subsonic at 860 yds (1115.0fps)
.308 208g HRN A-max @ 2424fps goes subsonic at 1210 yds (1118.5fps) < different form factor

Which one falls out of the sky first?

but you still have to live in the realm of pressure limitations to said cartridge and the speed will not be the same for different weights. :) I love monkey wrenches!

These velocities were picked because they are well under the SAAMI Pmax, by at least 9 ¼ %, for the round. The heavier / longer round goes further (which was the question) for all the reasons stated in this thread and more.

[fgw_in_fla]

Celtic - Thanx for the info. It's much appreciated.

Sendero - I've heard that from others before. A heavier bullet will tollerate wind a little better than a lighter one. Thanks.

Thanks to all for your input. I think I'll call in for a few million bullets & a truckload of powder tomorrow. I need to get loaded up for the weekend.

Thanks, again!

[GaCop]

make it easy on yourself, google. the JBM ballistics calculator. They have a calculator for max range including angles of incident and flight time, it really makes you think about what's beyond your target.

-J

+1 and from actual firing experience, it pretty darned accurate!