Workin up loads with the '06 and Barnes 168gr TTSX

[handirifle]

As the title mentions I am starting some loads up with the new 168gr TTSX, and H4350. The 168's have a BC of .470, so they ought to do all I will need them to do. I have the Barnes number 4 manual and H4350 was not the listed fastest, or most accurate powder, but it is what I have the most of, and so that is where I have to start. Living in lead free CA, I need to work up a solid load that this rifle likes. I also have some Barnes 130gr TTSX's to try, but since I have a limited amount of empty brass, I will work on my main load first. I want to load the 130's also, and see how much the POI changes. The Barnes loads list them out the muzzle (24" barrel, mine is 22) at around 3200-3300fps, so I am guessing mine will come in about 50fps lower, or so.

I have to ask how you guys, the ones that do NOT have a gauge, measure the length to the lands? I usually seat a bullet out long and cycle it in the chamber till it shows markings from the lands, then I start seating it deeper and deeper as I load. I started at a COL of 3.330" ( this is .050" off the lands, by the way I measure them) and went deeper in steps of .010". I also varied the powder charge, and for each charge weight, loaded to the same COL as other charge weights. Hopefully, this will give me a charge weight, and bullet depth, the rifle prefers. If nothing is suitable, or if I see no improvments, I will assume it must be the powder in the combo, and try to get another powder.

Anyone else with a bit of Barnes load experience with a technique that has worked for them?

[chestsprings]

My experiences.

I have been using Barnes X's since they came out in the 90's, here in Va. for deer.
Most of my killing of deer is with my Ruger #1, Rem, 6mm, 85 gr. X’s. To me a 06 with Barnes X’s for Va. Deer is a little over kill.

For my 06’s, I use 130 gr. XLC's, no longer made, & I still have 4 boxes. I have tried H-4895, H-4350, Varget, H-414, & H-335.

My one 06, with 24 inch, 1 in 10 twist, pac-nor barrel ( short throat), vel. In the 3100 fps range. Best three powders in my rifles are H-414, & H-4895, & H4350. Worst Varget.
My best accuracy came seating them .050 off the lands. Couldn’t get them to shoot when they were closer than .030.

Tried Hornady 130, 165, 168, Serria 130, 165, Nosler 130, 180, & Barnes X’s, 130, 165, 168, & 200.

Hands down winner, Barnes 165 TSX, non-Barnes, Hornady 165 SST in my rifles.

Powder for Barnes 165 TSX, H-414, Varget, H-4350, R-19, & H-4831.
Best powder, H-4350, worst Varget.

Seating, same as 130’s, .050 off the lands.

For some reason the Barnes 168TSX’s would not shoot as good as the 165 TSX’s.??????????????
Vel. For the Barnes 165’s, in the high 2900’s to low 3000’s. accuracy, normally, 3 shots in ½ inch at 100 yds.
If I tried to push the 165’s more than 3025, the groups would really open up.

[handirifle]

chestsprings
WOW, thanks for eons of experience related info. Probably will take me reading the post a few times to absorb it all. I don't know much about the regular 168gr TSX, but I do know is is a slightly different bullet than the 168gr TTSX. According to Barnes the TTSX version has a sleeker overall design. Not sure how it will work out in my rifle, but I will find out.

I hope to use the '06 for everything, elk, deer, pigs, but I also have a 308 that I took my deer last fall with. I plan on loading it with the 130's also. True to the 308/30-06 history, it will push (on paper) the 130's nearly as fast as the '06. It will be like a short action 270, pushing a 130gr pill at 3100fps. The 308 will be my back up rifle. I want to keep it simple, if possible, to make it down to one rifle, one bullet for everything.

A good friend of mine did that with his 300Wm and 180's, and that dude could hit anything he aimed at, and it usually fell right when it was hit.

I know the 4350 lines of powder, both Hodgdons and IMR, have good history in the '06, so I am hoping these loads do not break traditions. I cannot afford to keep buying different powders and expensive bullets, so when I find something that works, I stop. I realize it may not be the "best" but in this case ignorance is bliss ;D. Cheap bliss anyway.


Thanks again for the info.

[chestsprings]

I’ve been reloading for 54 ys., for a lot of cartridges, but always for the 06. When I get a “brain freeze”, & want to know about the 06, I go to “The Rifleman Journal” website by German Salazar. best site going. http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/

Since I like to “tinker”, a few yrs. Ago, while using different powders, I bought 1000 each of these primers. Rem….9 ½, Federal…GM210M, Federal….GM215M, CCI…BR-2, CCI…250, & Wolf…LRM.

In my very undisciplined-unscientific method, I would use a powder charge, using the above different primers, seeing which was best. Using 2 Ruger 77’s ( tang safety) & a 700 reworked over. Only original thing on it is the action & bolt. Different stock, barrel, trigger, etc., & another other model 700, which is all factory.

My results, at 100 & 200 yds. In the above 4 hunting rifles ( all .06’s) I couldn’t positively tell one primer was better than the others. Using my Chrony, it seemed when using H414, I got more constant results with mag primers. Now I’m sure a better shooter with a better rifle, say a Savage target LRPV ( don't think they make them in a 06) , shooting at 600 or 1000 yds, would/could tell a difference, but not a 8 ½ lb. hunting rifle, at least not me.

Have to remember, these are regular hunting rifles.

One last thing on the 130 XLC. Using the 06, I shot a few does at approx... 45 to 90 yds. If I didn’t hit the shoulder, they would go straight thru. Small hole in, small out. Then a tracking job, but would always find them dead.

Never had any experience with the TTSX. In the last 30+ yrs., here in Va. Have shot over 150 deer, & as I said, the 165X’s in a 06 are a little over kill. That’s why I like my Ruger #1, rem 6mm, 85 gr. Xlc, or tsx.
Good luck on finding a good load.

I agreed with a lot of other knowledgeable gun writers, you just can’t go wrong with a 06.

[handirifle]

Your results are one of the reasons I switched to the tipped versions. I shot a small buck last fall with a 150gr Nosler Etip at 180yds with my 308. Even shooting from an elevated hilltop, and at a slight quartering to, angle, it went inbetween 2 ribs on entrance AND exit, what are those odds. Since it was almost 90 degrees out, and after field dressing it, and checking it in, I took it to a butcher shop, and his first comment was to ask if I shot it with a 223.

The Nosler and the non tipped Barnes bullets are supposed to start opening at around 2100fps. The tipped versions are supposed to open at 1800, and the newer LRX's at 1600. I want to try the LRX's in the '06 as well, since it's a little extra margin for error.

This 168 is slightly different from the old one. The old (TSX) one has a BC of .404 while the newer TTSX is .470, and the 175gr LRX, that I want to try, has a BC of .508. Yea maybe overkill for a seer, but like I said, I eventually want a one caliber, one bullet for all my hunting, then I will get to where I barel have to think avout trajectory, as it will become almost an instinct.

I used to be like that as a kid when I used my 22 for hunting everything I hunted. Shots ranging from point blank (trapline shots) to 60-70yds on tree squirrels and rabbits. Rabbits were usually closer. I got to where I seldom if ever missed, and when I did it was usually on rabbits cause those were offhand shots. The squirrel shots were sitting.