What .308 lead-free bullet for short to med. range whitetails?

[nuance231]

Thought I might work up some loads for northern Minnesota whitetails, starting to gather components. My go to rifle is a 20" barreled .308, 1 in 10 twist. I have used 150 and 168 gr. lead bullets to take deer from bow range to 200+ yards. Most deer have been shot at close range, longer than 200+ yard shots are available. There is invariably swamp nearby, so bullet expansion is critical. I wanna put it down!!!

Any info on what lead-free bullets have worked for you at what ranges would be much appreciated, reloads or factory.

Additionally, if you happen to reload, what powders/primers? I am currently using Varget as temps can be from below zero to shirtsleeve.

Thanks
Jeff,


modified for clarity 2/9/12

[nsaqam]

I'd stick the 130gr Barnes TTSX in there.

I'd even consider the 110gr TTSX.

Barnes just does monometal bullets better.

[airaddict]

I used the hornady gmx in 150 gr w great success. I was pushing them fairly slow at 2625 w 44.5 gr of varget in neck sized cases only. In a factory slorter tube i could keep it right around 2" at 200 but our shot are usually inside 150yds. I like them better than barnes cuz their data is interchangable w the other bullets in the weight class.

Brian

[nuance231]

Thanks much for your replies.

I'm presuming bullet expansion at short ranges. How about bullet expansion with the Barnes or Hornady at 100 - 200 yards? Farther?

What muzzle velocity for the Barnes?

Anybody else care to chime in?

Inquiring Mind(s)
Jeff

[nsaqam]

You're not going to blow up a monometal with high impact velocity so push the lighter TTSX's as fast as they go .

Devastating up close.
Deadly at distance.

Out of a 24" barrel Barnes #4 lists two 110gr loads well over 3500fps so I think you should be looking to drive that 110 to 3400+ with your 20" barrel.

Those light TTSX's rock.

BTW I hunt the Northern MN woods too.

[bfl]

I have a little "research project" going on right now that could have answered you question. Unfortunately the 130 TTSX handloads weren't ready for this deer season. In my experience with Barnes bullets in my 6.8 and .308, it appears that if you want DRT performance from a non neck shot, you really have to stay above 2600fps impact velocity.

Over the last 2 years, I have had 8 participants in my whitetail bullet testing program, 6 of which were taken with Barnes bullets. 4 were shot using 168gr TTSX ammo in the 308 from SSA. SSA states the velocity is 2680, I haven't chronoed them to be sure. Deer were shot between 85 and 150 yards. 3 ran between 40 to 125 yards, one made it 10 yards and laid down. First 3 were heart/lung shots, the 10 yard animal was a questionable quartering away that entered at the back of the ribcage and exited through the offside front shoulder. None of them dropped immediately.

In the 6.8 I was using 85gr TSX bullets leaving the muzzle at 3075fps. These were SSA "tactical" loads. The two deer harvested with this bullet were heart/lung shots; one at 80 yards, the other 240. Both hit the ground immediately and did not get back up.

I have not done all the math on each of these, but it appears to me that if you aren't taking neck shots, then you really have to keep the velocity up on monolithic bullets to get the necessary shock to the central nervous system to get them to go down immediately when making a heart/lung shot. The closer the shot to the spine, the more leeway you have with speed. This is why I believe the whole theory of "knockdown power" is just that, a theory. Obviously a 168gr 30 caliber bullet with its superior SD and higher energy should get the job done much better than a bullet half its weight at a modestly higher velocity, but that has not been the case for me. This is why I loaded up the 130 TTSX bullets to try out, that should put me in the same velocity range with both rifles so I can compare and see what I come up with. Unfortuantely that won't be until the end of the year.

On a side note, we had impressive results with Hornady SST bullets this year, from the 6.8, .243, 7mm mag, and 308. I'm not sure if it is personal preference to go with a monolithic bullet over a cup and core bullet, but the SSTs made some very impressive holes and the deer went down fast. If you have to use lead free for legal reasons or personal preference, by all means go for it. The SST is really just a Vmax with a lock ring inside to help hold the core. They open fast and make big holes. I loaded some 150 SSTs for a buddy with a .308 Remington pump this year, and they performed very well, both were 1 shot DRT.

One other thing to consider is if you are in a situation where you have to track one, you will be much happier following a traditional bullet blood trail over a monolithic bullet blood trail. You will have a caliber sized entrance and half inch diameter exit with the TTSX. Big blood gushing holes aren't what they are built to do.

I was a Barnes fanboy for a long time, it was all that I would hunt with. The above hunting experiences got my curiousity going, and after starting to reload I am able to test out a lot of different combinations to see what works for me. I still think Barnes bullets are great, but I am really starting to think that for shooting whitetails it may just be too good of a bullet. I really got started with them in the 6.8mm for hog hunting, which is a heck of a lot tougher animal than our NE whitetails.

Given the option of a 1.5" entrance and exit wound at 275 yards, using a 120gr SST in my 6.8 leaving the muzzle at 2550 fps, vs .308 going in and .500 coming out with a 168 TTSX @ 2680, its not much of a decision for me.

[nsaqam]

Very nice writeup!

Your tests confirm what I was saying about driving the TTSX's as fast as they'll go.

3400-3500fps with the 110gr TTSX will be devastating out past 200 yards and downright sick up close.
Those velocities are easily attainable and I've found that the TTSX's I've used love to be pushed very hard.

Once again, nice writeup sir!

[nuance231]

Very nice writeup!

What he said



Jeff

[xhogboss]

Not .308 experience, but have to hunt with non-lead here in California, so you may find some relevance. I use the Barnes 130's in my .270 - pushed about 3100. I have taken several black-tail deer and some hogs here. One-shot kills. Devastating wound channel. I've yet to recover a bullet. Nothing has moved beyond a foot or two.

That being said, I've always believed bullet placement is more important than the bullet and caliber. If I didn't want them to move, I'd look at a high-shoulder shot to at least immobilize the front end, and (if my experience with Barnes is any indication) disrupt the spinal column so that they dropped on the spot.

Hope you find your solution.

[bfl]

Thanks.

I intend to load up some of the 130 TTSXs in my 300 RUM for laughs. Not a go to round by any means, but just to see how the bullets do a little more extreme velocity. I am curious to see if there will be comparable meat damage from the monolithics vs a bullet that is going to fragment at those impact velocities. Should be interesting to see.

As much as I hate to say it, as I don't want to deal with the damage they will do to our farm, I really wish I had some hogs to try this stuff out on.

[243LPR]

130 tsx out of my Rem. 660 with a max charge of w748 has produced 1 shot kills on 3 whitetails in a row.All inside 100 yd but really do a job. They also group around 3/4" @ 100yd. Great load but it doesn't like the 110's.

[nuance231]

Hmm... 130gr TTSX... Like what I'm reading. Like what's written about the 110 gr but having a little trouble wrapping my head around using 110 gr for deer. If accuracy was more or less equal, sounds like I might have to see which bullet has more velocity further out.

I'm reading that this type of bullet holds together at short range with normal to high velocities. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

2 of my last 3 whitetails have been within 30 yards. For this reason Nosler Partitions have been my bullet of choice. With last years deer, found the back half of the bullet under the far side shoulder skin after it had bounced off a couple of ribs on the way in and went thru the far shoulder, the front half fragmented all over the chest cavity, quartering away shot.

Wouldn't mind a bullet that stayed mostly together at short range but still provided a nice wound channel/shock a little ways out there, seems like these might work.

Jeff

[handirifle]

On a different note, I used the Nosler Etip, 150gr for my 308 this year. It too, wears a 20" barrel, and truthfully, I was only pushing them about 2600 from the muzzle. Only a moderate level load.

Shot my deer at 180yds. i was high on a hill side shooting down at him. He was angling slightly towards me, not the ideal shot, but he was so fast in and out of my shooting lanes, I took the only shot I had. I held right behind the left shoulder ( do not like using the shoulder shot, too much lost meat), and squeezed. At the shot he jumped, I saw a cloud of dust from the ground behind him, and he took off. He only ran 50 yds before dropping dead. Bullet entered high near the front of the left lung, passed through the right lung and liver on it's way back out again. Probably a quarter sized exit wound.

Not a huge hole, but by the same token, I had so little wasted meat it was almost like my archery kills. My rifle gave me 1.5" groups, and that was the first and only load I tried. Season was getting close, and money was running short. This particular rifle didn't like the Barnes 150gr TSX at any load.

I do have some 130gr TTSX's I am gonna load pretty hot, to see what happens.

[243LPR]

A 130 tsx is about equal to a regular 150 gr bullet in length. If your gun will shoot them the 130 is about ideal for deer I think.I've had good luck with Barnes. I killed 2 diiferent deer with the 44 cal 200 xpb and recovered bullets were picture perfect mushrooms.

[rusty815]

I use the 180gr. nosler E-tips, in a 300WSM though, and it has been devastating on anything I shoot at, I wouldn't use anything else.