Has anyone fired a Savage 7mm-08 with the new slower 1-11.5" twist rate

[herring]

I am considering the purchase of a Savage 7mm-08 and am not entirely comfortable with the new slower twist rate - 1-11.5". Rifle will mainly be used to harvest deer.
Called Savage (they will not accept email inquiries) and their response was similar to an earlier thread on this issue, 'we have determined that the best twist rate for the 7mm-08 is 1-11.5" for factory ammo'. I expressed to the customer rep my hunting intentions and asked what factory ammo will be best suited for my needs with their rifle - the rep would not give any specific recommendations. Sometimes a hand written letter receives the best response and I will send out same this evening.

Has anyone fired a Savage 7mm-08 with the new slower 1-11.5" twist rate?

Thank you all for your time in advance on this question and all that I have learned at this forum.

[TechHunter]

I have not, but I did write to Dan Lilja inquiring about one of his custom barrels in 7MM-08 and the twist rate he would recommend. He replied saying that, in his opinion, 1:10 is the most suitable twist rate if you are not planning to shoot any bullet heavier than 150 gr.
I shoot a 1:9.5 McGowen and it groups very good (sometimes .3, under .5 most of the time) using 120, 130 and 140 bullets. As far as 1:11.5, it sounds kinda slow to me considering that the most common bullets in the 7-08 are 120 grs and heavier.

[vermonter]

I was surprised and disappointed a few days ago when I realized my 7mm-08 had a 11.5 twist. But the fact of the matter is that I still have a stock deer rifle with a $200 scope that I can shoot factory ammo, 140 gr. ballistic tips into 1 inch groups at 100 yds. I'm sure some of the guys here could cut that group in half.

[USAFA71]

I have a Tikka 595 in 7-08 and I think the twist is 1 in 9.5(could be faster) so I thought that the 1 in 11.5 is way too slow. That is until I went downstairs and measured three different bullets. The longest of the 139-140 gr bullets was the Hornady 139 gr SST at 1.275". The Nosler 140 gr Ballistic Tip was 1.5" or so, and the Sierra 140 GameKing BT was even shorter.
When I plugged these bullet lengths into a twist-rate calculator, at 2800 fps(easily attained in the 7-08 with a 22" barrel), the optimum twist rate came out to 11.4! I did it twice with another calculator, and came up with the same results. So if you are using the 7-08 for deer-sized animals, and are using 140 gr bullets or lighter, then the 1 in 11.5 twist is good. Prior to the 7-08, most 7mm cartridges were easily loaded with bullets up to 175 gr, which would require a much faster twist. Just like the 30-06 using 150-180 gr bullets is better served with a 1 in 12 twist, but most 30 cal barrels are 1 in 10 twist to stabilize the long 220 gr bullet, which few 30-06 shooters ever use.

I would think the 1 in 11.5 twist would be more than adequate for the 7-08 as long as bullet weight(and therefore bullet length) is kept at 140 gr or less. Now most bullet twist calculations are based on bullets with the cup and core design, so if using Barnes TSX or similar bullets, a 140 gr bullet may be too long for the 11.5 twist, but since I don't have any Barnes or other homogeneous bullets to measure, I can only speculate.

[Cycler]

My Savage 16 in 7mm-08 has the slow 11.5" twist and it has given mediocre accuracy with both Remington 140 gr PSP and Hornady 139 gr SBT bullets. Not dreadful but not wonderful either, like 1-1/2 to 2" groups at 100 yards. I haven't tried 120 gr to see if they would help and I'm sure 150 gr and heavier would be worse.

Savage's reply to you is the same as I received twice. I was given no explanation for their thinking, just "we know better". No further explanation was given when I asked why no other maker had ever reached that conclusion.

BTW, save your postage. I also wrote to their customer service and all I got back was my original letter accompanied by a form letter telling me to call customer service.

[gmidbrod]

I am among those who have sought out a different rifle due to the twist rate issue on the 7mm-08. I found a nice Ruger Hawkeye in 7mm-08. Later ended up with a Marlin XL7 in 270 as well. Like them both alot. Haven't bought anymore complete Savage rifles at all recently actually. I still want to use the actions for custom builds though.

[herring]

Thank you shooters for your respone at this dilema. Sent a certified letter to Savage with what I think are the most important questions; why did you change twist rate - what is best factory ammo for deer - what is the best factory ammo at 200 yards - will your 1-11.5" twist rate satbilize a 160 grain bullet. cycler, I hope that we do not get a form letter as a response.
gmibrod, looking at the Marlin xs7 and xl7.

[gmidbrod]

Herring, I too want to shoot the 160's in my 7-08. I hope you get a response from savage.

[dbuck]

I have a question on this subject, I have a Savage 7mm-08 barrel that I'm building since I gave my grandson my Remington 700 7mm-08. I only shoot Nosler 120 gr BT and Nosler 140 gr BT. How will this effect these bullets with the 1/11 twist. I ordered from Jim Riggs and the barrel won't be in for a couple of weeks. Do I cancel the order and get a ER Shaw 1/9 twist barrel which is 24" long compared to 22" for the Savage.

dbuck

[Cycler]

I have a question on this subject, I have a Savage 7mm-08 barrel that I'm building since I gave my grandson my Remington 700 7mm-08. I only shoot Nosler 120 gr BT and Nosler 140 gr BT. How will this effect these bullets with the 1/11 twist. I ordered from Jim Riggs and the barrel won't be in for a couple of weeks. Do I cancel the order and get a ER Shaw 1/9 twist barrel which is 24" long compared to 22" for the Savage.

dbuck

The 1:11.5" twist should stabilize 120 gr bullets nicely. It's going to be marginal with 140 gr bullets, particularly the longer, more aerodynamic and tipped ones or the all-copper types.

[handirifle]

Been doing some research on the 6.8 SPC for an AR and they used to all be chambered in 1-10 twist, and are now going to 1-11 or 1-12. These are very similar to the 7mm (6.8). The SPC uses bullets in the lighter range, 85 to 110gr, and there have been zero issues with stabilazition.

Of course I have heard of no one using heavier than 110. Most likely, the 1-10 would do better for 140+ weight bullets, IMHO. I went through the slow twist delima with an H&R rifle(s) in 223 with the 1-12 twist, with less than stellar results on anything over 40gr. I have not had that problem with 1-9 twist Savages.

Buy a 22-250 Savage, and sell the barrel. It will go like hotcakes, and help pay for a nice 1-10 aftermarket 7-08 barrel.

[herring]

Certified letter was received by Savage Firearms at 1115 hours on 30 November. I will post their response as to why they choose a twist rate at 1-11.5" for the 7mm-08 when I receive same from Savage.
It was not my intention to create an issue.
Just a guy that intended to purchse a 7mm-08 firearm with a twist rate that will work with a 140 -165 grain bullet.
Data from Savage at this issue will be appreciated all.
Savage reps, please respond at this forum.

[dfrosch]

The Stevens 7mm-08 comes with a 9.5" twist. Why not get it?

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

[tammons]

research on the 6.8 SPC for an AR and they used to all be chambered in 1-10 twist, and are now going to 1-11 or 1-12.

For the 6.8 SPC (different animal) 1:11 or 1:12 twist along with SPC II or dmr chambers are 100% about reducing pressure to shoot higher velocity with 85-110 gr bullets.

1:9 or 1:9.5 is the place to be with a 7mm-08 mostly for one reason. The 162 amax. Superb bullet and cheap. Shot a boar hog about 200-250# at 300 yards one shot and dropped it.

11.5 twist is okay for 120-140gr bullets but I would not buy one.

I would get an A+B 9.5 twist barrel from midway for $130.

[herring]

dfrosch, I would purchase the Stevens if they offered an AccuTriger.
Fired a model 11 with the AccuTriger in 308 a year or so ago.
I loved the firearm, the action was sweet and handled well. With my limited skills I would shoot a shy 2" group at 100 yards with factory ammo.
My intention was to purchase the Savage in 7mm-08 for my son and I. Seemed to be the best cartridge choice for what we mainly harvest - deer under 200lbs. With that said, I do not wish to limit my purchase of a 7mm-08 to a deer rifle. I am older and will most likely never leave my limited deer hunting area. One of these rifles is for my son who will wish to harvest large game.
Still confused about the Savage 1-11.5" 7mm-08 twist rate.

[dfrosch]

The accutrigger is okay. I find them kinda mushy. The Stevens trigger is similar to a 3 screw trigger, but I don't think it has a sear adjustment. They can be tuned. Some one around here was giving away smaller diameter spring wire for a SASE.

http://savageshooters.com/SavageForu...c,19414.0.html

If you absolutely have to have an accutrigger, you might contact the custom shop and see if they'll build one with a 9.5" twist barrel. You could also try your hand at changing barrels. But be warned, this gets addictive.

I'm a little confused as to why they went with an 11.5" twist too. And, probably wouldn't buy one either. But I did just get a Stevens on Black Friday for $240.


Good luck,
Dana

[herring]

No response from Savage at USPS Certified letter that I sent on November 27th 2009 regarding 7mm-08 twist rate. You would think a reply during this time frame would be expected from Savage. Created a pdf of letter sent to Savage and a jpg of USPS Certified Mail receipt with the intention to attach same to this thread. Have not been able to figure out how to insert these items.
Attached below, if copy and paste works, is a word document of my letter sent to Savage.
Thank you all for your advice. Will post again If I receive a response from Savage.

Me
Address
East Moriches, NY 11940
NRA Life Member
Phone #
Email address


Savage Arms, Inc.
100 Springdale Road
Westfield, MA 01085


11/25/2009

Re: newer twist rate of 7mm-08 at 1-11.5"


Dear Savage Arms,

Have purchased several Savage firearms over the past two decades and they are fine shooters.

My intention is to purchase two Savage rifles in 7mm-08 caliber
for my son and I.

I have noted that the Savage twist rate at 7mm-08 is now
1-11.5" while for years previously Savage offered the 7mm-08 at a 1-9.5" twist rate.
This seems 'out of the box' to me and odd to my peers.
Phone contact from Savage rep indicated that new twist rate is best for the caliber and most appropriate for factory ammo.


If you will, please provide me with a response to the following questions;

Why has the twist rate been decreased from 1-9.5" to
1-11.5"?

What is the best factory ammo option with this new twist rate to harvest deer?

What is the best factory ammo option with this new twist rate for target accuracy at 200 yards?

Will your twist rate stabilize a 160 grain bullet?


I have posted this inquiry at savageshooters.com on 11/25/2009 with user name as 'herring'.
There are several previous threads on savageshooters.com with similar questions regarding twist rate and shooters without answers. Most responses are not positive at these previous posts regarding twist rate and with buyers considering other offerings.
Additionally, there are several other websites with Savage
7mm-08 newer twist rates @ 1-11.5" without an answer.

Google - savage 7mm-08 rifle twist rate.


Please advise as to my questions and thank you for time in advance.


Sincerely,



Me




P.S. As Savage Arms produces a fine and accurate affordable firearm, you may consider it in your best interest to communicate with your consumers over the internet to explain this issue.

P.S.S Please do not respond with a form letter.

[Dangerous Dan]

The Stevens 7mm-08 comes with a 9.5" twist. Why not get it?

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

That Is Just Not So The Stevens 200 Is also 1-11 1/2 Just a Bad Twist Rate

[Gaviidae_Esq.]

Haven't, don't own one, am intrigued by the twist rate.

A practical question ... Doesn't the 120 grain trinity (Barnes TSX, Horn VMax, Nos BT) and a jug of R15 cover most all applications for the cartridge in three dang good bullets?

If the twist also stabilizes a 139 SP at 2800+, I can't hate it.

[setterman]

I recently built a 7mm-08 using a savage ation and a savage barrel in 1-11.5 twist. Did not know the rate at the time. It shot 139gr SST (hand loaded), the best I could get was a 1.25 group at 100yds. When I found the twist rate I then went to 120 BT's and drew them groups to about 5/8.
But I built the gun to shot 139 SST thru 150's. So I sold the gun and started over. I have since learned that stevens made a barrel with a 1-9.5 twist for a very short time and they are few and far between.So I guess I will have to special order a barrel with the twist I want.

[Uncle Mike]

Bottom line...1/11.5" is to slow for heavier than 120gr.

Most of us use 140's in the 7mm-08 for deer and such...the new twist will not stabilize the 140's as well as the 1/9.5".

All said....I think I speak for the masses....we want the 1/9.25" or 1/9.5" twisted 7mm-08 back.

Jus cause someone at Savage got a smokin; deal on a gross of 1/11.5"ers, NO.....we want the faster twist back!

[herring]

Still no mail, email or phone response from Savage regarding 7mm-08 twist rate at certified letter sent over two weeks ago. I have not contacted Savage after I sent my usps correspondence. This kind of ticks me a little bit. A company with a fine product at an affordable price that will not respond to questions? - that is out of the box. I will post their phone response tomorrow morning starting with time of call, who I spoke with to start and details thereafter.

[Cycler]

Still no mail, email or phone response from Savage regarding 7mm-08 twist rate at certified letter sent over two weeks ago. I have not contacted Savage after I sent my usps correspondence. This kind of ticks me a little bit. A company with a fine product at an affordable price that will not respond to questions? - that is out of the box. I will post their phone response tomorrow morning starting with time of call, who I spoke with to start and details thereafter.

I don't expect you will get a satisfactory answer by mail or by phone. I tried both methods right after I bought my M16 7-08 and realized what the twist rate was. Two phone calls both got a "that's what it is" reply with absolutely no explanation or justification and my letter was returned with a form saying "call us to discuss this".

Why they are so closed mouth about this is a mystery to me too.

[Bill Star]

I shot National High Power Silhouette matches for years using a 7-08 with
a 1-12 twist. It stabilized 162gr and 168gr bullets well.
According to Jack O'Connor and all his custom barrel builders the 30-06 was
built with a 1-10 twist rate because it was a military requirement that the
bullet would remain stable out to and beyond a thousand yards. A hunter who
shoots at big game at 1000yds or beyond is irresponsible. O'Conor and his barrel
makers claim that a 220gr 30-06 loaded to 2400 fps in a 1-12 will be stabilized out to its
useful hunting range limit with lower chamber pressure. He also claims that his
beloved .270 winchester is over stabilized with anything faster than 1-12.
(all the above can be found in his book " The Rifle " ).
Do faster twist work ? Of course, but they tend to over stabilize the bullet,
shorten barrel life and increase chamber pressure needlessly.
I shoot my 7-08 with 168gr Sierra Matchking at 500 meters with my 1-12 custom barrel and
it shows no keyholing even slightly.
Rate of twist like most things is very subjective. To each his own....
But just let me say to a "rifle newbie" do not be afraid of Savages twist rate of 1-11.5
out to any reasonable hunting range with the 7-08 with bullets as heavy as 168gr.

[dfrosch]

The Stevens 7mm-08 comes with a 9.5" twist. Why not get it?

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

That Is Just Not So The Stevens 200 Is also 1-11 1/2 Just a Bad Twist Rate

The website says 9.5" twist.

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm


<edit> Dan, You&#39;re right! Ran a patch through it and it is an 11.5" twist.