Reply With QuoteVery good article. Kinda blows my 223AI out of the water but, what the heck, I still enjoy it.
Worth the read.
http://www.shootersforum.com/wildcat...artridges.html
Very good article. Kinda blows my 223AI out of the water but, what the heck, I still enjoy it.
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
I liked reading this but was interested in how much opinions can vary. For example, the article states the 6mm Rem AI is one of the lowest gains in velocity and probably not worth doing. However, the Sierra manual for the 6mm Ackley states exactly the opposite in the 6mm Ackley is a good candidate. My personal experience with the 6mm Rem is that I can get well over a 10% gain in velocity with the 107 SMK using my 6mm Rem AI over what I could get in my standard 6mm Rem. I think you have to do a true comparison with the optimal powder for each case/capacity. The RE-19 and RE-22 shines in my 6 Ackley, and it was much poorer than IMR-4350 in my standard 6mm Rem in terms of velocity gain using 100-107 bullets.
I currently only have two Ackleys, the 6mm Rem AIs and a 22-250 AI. I originally went with the AI because of the significant taper in both cases and the need to FL size with each firing. With the AIs, I can go 3-4 using only neck sizing and after that a shoulder bump and 3-4 again. The limitation for me has been good brass. I have thousands of RP 6mm Rem brass. However, when I make AI brass and shoot them wide open I get only 3-4 firings before the primer pockets get lose. I probably push the limits a little more than most. I made some 6 Ackley brass from RWS 7x57 brass a few years ago and it is outstanding. I have +20 firings on it and going strong. I had a similar experience with the 22-250 AI using Winny brass and it losing primer pockets after 3-4 firings. I am going to ask Santa for a new box of Lapua 22-250 brass for Christmas.
I really think old PO Ackley had stock in all the barrel companies and just convinced us all to buy more barrels.
Long live the experimenter, Tim
Interesting article but simplistic in its approach and scope. Often you need to change powders (go slower) with an AI to really see what a cartridge will do.
The comparrison is very skewed against high velocity cartridges in that he evaluates them on a % velocity gain basis rather than a FPS gain basis (going from 2,000 to 2,200 fps results in a much "better" gain the way he defines it than going from 3,500 to 3,700 fps). This is why the 250 Savage comes off looking very good in the article while the 22-250 (based on the same case and getting roughly the same increase in capacity) comes off as marginal.
I agree whole heartedly that the article was a nice read.....but with so many more powders to choose from these days....I have to disagree with some of the conclusions. I've got two rifles that are "Improved" and a third one being built. The two that I use currently both have significant increases in velocity without any signs of pressure.....I've pushed them to the point of signs and have backed off. As has been mentioned....if you enjoy tinkering...do it in a safe manner....you can get significant gains by "Improving" a lot of cartridges.
I enjoy the extended range that the "Improved" rounds offer. I also enjoy the time in my man cave...working on brass and testing loads. A guy has to have something to do during the long winter evenings.
Sometimes it's nice to snuggle up w ur gf or wife too! Haha I enjoyed the article for a quick introduction to the Ackley cartridges, PO Ackley , his work and what he accomplished back in the day. It could be more comprehensile and brought up to date w new powders. Alot of the comments after the article by Bob Jourdan were so so but so
E very useful and on track. It introduced me to the world of PO Ackley and I have 3 improved rounds now. Love each of them .223 ai, 260ai, and a wildcat that I guess could have been an Ackley- 6 mmbrx. A 250 ai is next on the list. Love the 250 Sav in mod 14 am classic but would like it more or something more in the ai
Thanx for the article savageboy! I enjoyed being reminded of the many reasons AI's rock. +1 to Tiny on the RL-19. It really woke my 6mm AI up after dismal results from 4350 & lite boolits. I've got a .257AI too. And love it even more. Next move will be 250AI, ya gotta love the real world improvements on that little tyke. Retro rocket for sure. ;D
So, I wonder with modern powders, a 100gr. bullet, 22" sporter barrel what would be the top velocity that one could get out of a .250AI? I see 3250fps ish w/ 4350, RL15, etc. Wonder if RL17 or one of the others would do even better? Accuracy is another thing, I just speaking of top possible velocity in a LW hunting rifle.
Ammoguide.com list a 100 gr load at 3321 fps with 250-3000AI. For max speed using probably need that 28" barrel which doesn't make the best light weight hunter. Not a reason not to try it... Luck, Tim
Thats really amazing when you look at the round next to say a .223. Its not that much bigger, etc and the performance is outstanding for the amount of powder you use. I am into efficient rounds and that is one of them for sure. All those older cartridges w/ significant body taper- .250, 6.5x55, 30-30. .25-20, .30-40 Krag, etc. benefit greatly from being "Ackleyized" for that reason
it was a good read until they start comparing an Ackley handloaded cartridge to factory ammo. No way in this lifetime a 250Ackley is gonna shoot with a 25-06Rem. Compare apples to apples (more powder + same bullet+same pressures= higher velocities). Still a good read
.
Staying within the same pressure limits, one speculates on how much velocity gain one can get with relatively small increases in case capacity available with Ackley Improved case designs.
One should go for large case capacity increases, e.g., go from a 308 Win to the 30-378 Wby, in order to really be able to impress the prairie dogs.
However, some of us just like the looks of the Ackley Improved designs and don't need the bonafied ballistic differences in order to enjoy them.
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I like them because they look cool and case life increases. And of course you do get better performance.
"The sixth cartridge of the less than desirable Ackleys is one from a logjam of three, the 6mm Remington Ackley with the 75 gr. bullet, as mentioned above. Here we find the standard factory 6mm Remington sends off the 75 gr. bullet at 3400 fps, and the Ackley only gets 3600, for a gain of 5.9%. This is close to the 6% required by our rule, so some shooters might decide to chamber for this one. And this particular cartridge shows that some cartridges are better with one weight of bullet than with another. The 100 gr. in the Ackley is not good, but this 75 gr. is perhaps acceptable."
ha! only 3600fps with a 75gr bullet! my 6AI gets the 75gr vmax up to 3850fps! 28" barrel though....
Sweet!
It is a matter of how hard you want to push. My coyote rig is a 28" 1:12 twist 6 Rem (non-Ackley) and I get 3600 fps with the 75 VMax and a strong charge of IMR 4831. My factory Remington 75 gr bullets ran over 3450 fps.Originally Posted by joe h
Luck, Tim
tiny68,
yeah it is all about how fast you want to push them, just gotta find the right combo. i knew what speed i was wanting out of them. i tested h4831, h4350, imr4350, rl17, and i didnt get the velocity i wanted until i worked up a load with n550 and the barrel seemed to crave a max load with it. (stilll no pressure signs, primer pockets are tight when re-priming)
My pick out of all the Ackley's is the 6-06 AI & the 25-06 AI
The 6-06 is a savage 110 with a 22" barrel
[img width=586 height=768]http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu340/OKIE2-photos/TARGETS/Ruger25-0685btip048group.jpg[/img]
[img width=580 height=768]http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu340/OKIE2-photos/TARGETS/25-0685btipruger.jpg[/img]
If you are using you rifle as a single load then you don't need to worry about the biggest downside of a case with a 40deg. shoulder---feeding. If you are going to uses it in a situation were you hunting (deer-elk-something that will bite your ass) then I would try to get hold of a dummy case and see how it works in your action before rechambering or rebarreling. I had a Win 70 223Rem rebarrled to 6TCU (6-223Rem w/40deg. shoulder) and if I had to do it over I would have gone with the 6-223Rem.
my Savages feed fine with ackley cases.
Okie- are you using Stagger or Center Feed actions? Just curious
all 32 of my rifles are stagger feed
Remington, Ruger, Savage, Mauser, Winchester
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