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Thread: Action screw torque.

  1. #1
    r29l20
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    Action screw torque.

    You guys with glass & pillar bedded laminated stocks, what are you torquing your action screws to ?

  2. #2
    Paid Member 82boy's Avatar
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    Re: Action screw torque.

    Quote Originally Posted by r29l20
    You guys with glass & pillar bedded laminated stocks, what are you torquing your action screws to ?
    Hand tight.
    Patrick
    "To win in bench rest, you dont have to shoot small groups, you just can't shoot any big ones." ;)

  3. #3
    r29l20
    Guest

    Re: Action screw torque.

    I'm having a hard time finding the (hand tight) setting on my torque wrench.

  4. #4

    Re: Action screw torque.

    Discard that torque wrench...it's defective. Just use a T handle allen wrench, and tighten to hand tight, they're already set for that.
    "As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."

  5. #5
    r29l20
    Guest

    Re: Action screw torque.

    So I guess torque tuning does not matter ? ???

  6. #6

    Re: Action screw torque.

    25 inch pounds - wooden stocks
    45 inch pounds - plastic stocks
    65 inch pounds - composite stocks

    Non-technical worthless terms

    Hand tight
    Gorilla tight
    Tighten the screw until the threads start to smoke and then give it two more full turns. ::)

    And how many people do you know with a calibrated wrist and elbow?????

    [img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/fatwrench.jpg[/img]

  7. #7

    Re: Action screw torque.

    Accustock .223 @ 100 yds

    Typical at 30 lbs ins


    Typical at 40 lbs ins



    Not shown are the wide scatter groups at less than 30 lbs/in

    If you have a torque wrench in inch-pounds it's real easy to see what works by testing. It's fun to watch the group sizes change with just a bit of attention to the torque involved, it does make a difference. The best mechanics I know use torque wrenches in addition to 'feel'. Trust but verify.

  8. #8

    Re: Action screw torque.

    [img width=600 height=450]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/sharp-shooter/600ydlg.jpg[/img]
    600 yds, hand tight. Torque wrenches are for those who are allergic to spinach. ;D
    "As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."

  9. #9
    Paid Member 82boy's Avatar
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    Re: Action screw torque.

    It is plain and simple, if you have a stock set up that torquing the screws makes a difference, well then you have a bedding problem. A properly bedded stock will not require anything more than hand tight.

    5 shot 100 yard groups shot from a gun with a hand tight properly bedded stock.

    [img width=415 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/scan0004.jpg[/img]
    [img width=497 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/scan-1.jpg[/img]

    Patrick
    "To win in bench rest, you dont have to shoot small groups, you just can't shoot any big ones." ;)

  10. #10
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    Re: Action screw torque.

    yeah and i had a guy tell me that factory ammo shoots better out of all guns and there is no need for reloading any more ::)

    torque tuning is a little known trick to get a little extra out of ur load and rifle if u have a bedded stock and dont feel like you need it then dont do it. I do it and feel that it helps.
    rule #2 always double tap

  11. #11
    Paid Member GaCop's Avatar
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    Re: Action screw torque.

    It comes down to "whatever floats yer boat and works for you".

  12. #12

    Re: Action screw torque.

    82boy

    With respect to you 82boy and the rest of the bug hole shooters, how many people have target rifles like you and the majority of competitive shooters have.

    Second, "you" developed your bug hole loads to "your" hand tight, BUT hand tight to Arnold Schwarzenegger would be far different than hand tight to Pee-wee Herman.

    I have seen Silhouette rifles that came with a simple allen wrench and a weight to hang at the end of the allen wrench for action screw torquing. If the rifle is bedded using a pillar bedding system used as screw stops then screw torque will have less of a effect. BUT for the majority of rifles torquing the bedding screws is an accurate and very reliable method of "repeat" accuracy of action screw tightening and tuning.

    There are many, many ways of tuning a rifle and the German military Mauser rifles had steps cut in the barrels at the vibration node points to help control barrel vibrations and improve accuracy.

    [img width=600 height=334]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP0993.jpg[/img]

    A "properly bedded stock" means repeatability from shot to shot which means accuracy.


  13. #13
    Paid Member 82boy's Avatar
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    Re: Action screw torque.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigedp51
    82boy

    With respect to you 82boy and the rest of the bug hole shooters, how many people have target rifles like you and the majority of competitive shooters have.
    Second, "you" developed your bug hole loads to "your" hand tight, BUT hand tight to Arnold Schwarzenegger would be far different than hand tight to Pee-wee Herman.
    Sorry BigEdp51, your wrong again. All of then groups was shot with a Modified Savage Model 11 except for one that was shot with a model 12. There are not what you would call a "target rifles like you and the majority of competitive shooters have."
    Theses groups was not shot with a Bat, Panda, Hall or other custom action that "bug hole shooters" are associated with shooting. Hand tight has NOTHING to do with strength it deals with common sense. Besides the gun that shot them groups has been apart many times, and everytime it is put back together it shoots exactly the same in the exact same place. With that said, If torque really means what you say it does either I have the most repeatable torque of hand tight, or it doesn't matter. Well lets put it this way either my torque is calibrated exactly the same as Sharp shooters, because he has also had the gun apart and back together, and guess what it shoots the same and in the same spot, or again it doesn't matter.

    Here is a few other pictures for you to ponder over. All of them are 5 shoot 100 yard groups. This was a groups shot out of a box stock mod 12 Precision carbine. Guess what it was torqued hand tight. I found that after the wedge was removed, the gun shot well. But I would say the gun would have shot better if it was properly bedded.

    [img width=422 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/IMG_0081-1.jpg[/img]

    Here is a modified model 110


    Here is the same gun that shot the groups in the past thread with a different barrel, The load was not tuned just in the development stages.
    [img width=392 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/30brtest2001.jpg[/img]

    This was out of a box stock model 12 benchrest.
    [img width=389 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/scan.jpg[/img]
    [img width=546 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/Model12benchrest-1.jpg[/img]

    O' and a factory out of the box Savage edge/axis rifle.


    Every one of the guns was taken apart and was hand tight assembled by me before shooting. And to finish this arguement, Guess what, I have tried torquing actions screws, and what I found was it did not make a single bit of difference.
    Patrick
    "To win in bench rest, you dont have to shoot small groups, you just can't shoot any big ones." ;)

  14. #14

    Re: Action screw torque.

    82boy

    And to finish this arguement, Guess what, I have tried torquing actions screws, and what I found was it did not make a single bit of difference.
    I was going to say something else BUT this "IS" SavageShooters.com, I'm new here and my two new Stevens 200 have free floating barrels and were designed that way. BUT my new Remington 700 has up pressure at the fore end tip with 3 to 9 pounds of up pressure so each rifle is different.

    I will also add the Remington and Savage have recommended torque values for their stocks so understand why people are asking questions.

    As a side note I respect you judgment and I was going to PM you soon and ask your opinion about replacement stocks for my new Stevens 200 rifles. But my torque wrench will still be used because it "might" not improve anything but it will not hurt anything either.

    I will also say this at 61 years of age, these two new Stevens 200 are some of the most accurate out of the box rifles I have ever shot. And the Remington 700 was a bit of a disappointment, the trained Beavers they use the chew out the bolt face recess on the new Remington 700s need better training. And on top of this the Remington 700 had only one locking lug make good firm contact and the other lug was barely touching.

    [img width=600 height=395]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7463.jpg[/img]

    [img width=600 height=441]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7461.jpg[/img]

  15. #15

    Re: Action screw torque.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigedp51
    And on top of this the Remington 700 had only one locking lug make good firm contact and the other lug was barely touching.

    [img width=600 height=395]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7463.jpg[/img]

    [img width=600 height=441]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7461.jpg[/img]
    Are you showing us the fronts of the lugs?
    The fronts of the lugs help with camming when the shell is extracted.
    As far as I know the fronts do not need to touch evenly or even at all, just the backs where they are holding the pressure when the rifle fires.


    Michael Grace
    If you tell the truth, you wont have to remember what you said.<br /><br />&quot;I haven&#39;t failed.&nbsp; I&#39;ve found 10,000 ways that won&#39;t work.&quot;<br />&nbsp; - Benjamin Franklin<br /><br />I am fluent in &quot;Typo&quot;... I can read it and type it...

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