You Guy's with the older actions have a choice.
Us guy's with the newer actions (cocking indicator) Finally have one choice.
Ain't No Stinkin .38 Kit's For us.......
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You Guy's with the older actions have a choice.
Us guy's with the newer actions (cocking indicator) Finally have one choice.
Ain't No Stinkin .38 Kit's For us.......
I really appreciate this.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFurious
As for the letter he posted. it was for the previous WASHER ONLY test group I sent out. I admitted in this thread there was a valid concern with it and I sent these letters out to make sure no one continued to use the WASHER ONLY setup for the reasons mentioned.
As Mr Furious said "This kit "should" be reasonably safe and eliminate the ignition issues of the previous kit," the previous kit he is talking about is the one in the linked thread.
As far as whether it is better than the 38 special versions, who knows. I don't do this to try to show people up but I do have my own personal reasons for doing it. A helicopter accident in 2008 did me in. So when I am having a "good" day I do little projects like this to forget about life for a while. All the activity involved in taking pictures today and such is going to cost me a few "good" days. I really don't mind because if I didn't do things like this I would just sit around and probably hate life.
I welcome opinions but please no name calling
Dolomite
ATTABOY Dolomite
Good on you Dolomite. Keep hanging in there! You have a very positive attitude. Don't let nay sayers get to you.
I'm a total "Newb" to Boltguns & Savages in general, But I've noticed you've taken the time to respond to several of my posts with helpful info & advice. Thank you for that and for sharing your ingenuity. Just my 2 cents...... ;)
The balls in the thrust bearing rotate so there is no 5x the friction. Tell me how much testing was done with the original.357 case design before it was declared safe? And who did the testing, and how far away from the action was the tester? Was it done with a clamped down rifle and trigge pulled with a string? I havnt heard anything about any testing of that particular design but it is presumed safe by eveyone. There are test methods like the clamp and string that could be done with Supafly's design. After looking over how it is put together I visualy see no safety issues, but I dont think it could hurt to have proper tests run to see if it is safe and if it really does give better bolt lift, which is a really lousy Savage problem which I have currently on my 7x57 build along with a three screw trigger that when adjusted to its best is still marginal.
Those who are currently testing the thrust washer design should take all due precautions when using it untill it is proven safe. Dolomite my friend, you should have done all the testing yourself and over a long period of time before getting anyone else involved and then having them use safe measure like clamp and string.
El Lobo
I agree with you in theory, but seeing that the bolt lug's prevent nasty things from happening and they are fully engaged, I don't see a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by ellobo
BUT...I could be wrong.
It is impossible to rate this kit without comparing it to the 38/357 case kit. Both are designed to reduce friction between the BAS and the cocking piece sleeve and that is all they do. The friction between the 38/357 case kit single ball bearing and the BAS is EXTREMELY LOW. The friction is so low the bearing does not need to rotate. It is a very hard steel ball that remains smooth while it barely seats into the BAS. It might take about 1/10 of an inch pound to turn.
The two washer and 6 ball kit cannot possibly be any easier to rotate than the 38/357 case kit. Even if it was twice as easy, how would you ever tell?
The separate spacer to go between the BAS and the handle must be fabricated. It is just easier to shorten the BAS.
If a person wants to improve bolt lift further, study the cocking piece pin. The cocking piece pin rubs on the cocking piece, the sleeve, the bolt body and the action. It also rubs on the sear but that isn't what we are discussing here. A 1 piece dual roller cocking piece pin would be a big improvement.
The biggest reason for the spacer is that I generally do not like to do things that are not reversable to firearms. I know that most Savages aren't collectors items but over the years I have seen people do some pretty nasty things done to what would be collector firearms. Because of this anything I do to any firearm I try not to make it permanent. Yeah, for most people it would be easier just to shorten the BAS but I, personanlly, do not like to do things like that. And if I do I make sure I am 100% positive sure it will work after the modification.
ellobo,
No one is involed in the testing of this idea. I just threw it up here for all to see what I did. I got hammered for asking peole to test a previous design before posting it so from now on I am not going to ask anyone to test anything for me. People can do waht they want with what I have posted but I am not going to be a party to it anymore.
As I said before everyone here is an adult and are quite capable of making your own judgements and taking their own precautions.
Dolomite
Gentlemen the man is trying to help all of us. Instead of giving him crap and shooting it down if you don't like it just keep your mouth shut and move along. He is not hurting you in any way and those of us that would like to try this are very appreciative of his time and effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by dolomite_supafly
Thanks Dolomite,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
Dolomite,
Does adding the spacer push the bolthandle back far enough to cause it to hit the stock or the cutout in the action when you ope/close the bolt? Just tryin to get a mental pic of it in action(so to speak). The other question I have is with the bolthandle hole being shaped so the fits perfectly(and flush) onto the end of the bolt, does the spacer move it back too far to fit as expected?
I am guessing that you're thinking that the 5 bearings will share the pressure instead of it being loaded on just 1 bearing. SO if the weight/pressure is evenly distributed it should be easier. Seems like a good theory, and definately one worth testing.
I think most of us understand your real reasoning behind doing this, and appreciate your willingness to try it. I do agree that the other kit seemed like it could be unsafe in some rifles, but this one seems safe enough to me. Basically very similar to a normal lift kit and just dont have to cut the bolt. I would like to see a finished pic of it with the washer installed though, and of course the numbers too.
I'm no Mech-Eng. (Thank you Lord) ;D just a regular guy that is happy to get up on the green side of the grass everyday.
However, when I look at the design of the 5 bearing gizmo, my concern is that on the harder kicker guns, how are the bearings going to hold up? Are they going to remain round or will they have any tendency to become out-of-round?
In addition, the plastic that they sit in....is there a possibility that this could crack? and could this crack go un-noticed to the point where it would work for a certain number of rounds, and then gall and bind up the bolt?
Hey, for deer hunting it's no big deal. For hog hunting when that big 'ol pig is comin right at ya, and your chambering that second round, it may make a difference.
Dave
The fact that it works with the new bolts is super. Simple math proves that the bearing kit + the BAS washer = the same pressure on the spring and the same amount of travel. This kit is no more dangerous than the original bolt design. I am a mechanical engineer, for what little it's worth, and it doesn't take a mechanical engineer to do the math.
The BAS washer by itself.................not good.
And then again dolomite admitted this quickly.
I'd still take one for my new FCP-K and gladly pay for it.
I still say nice work, even if you use it in an older gun in place of the .38spl kit.
I'll try to get some pictures of the bolt installed in the gun when I can, I really need to take it easy today. But here are pictures of the washer installed and tighten on the bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by pdog06
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Firearms%20related/boltpic3.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Firearms%20related/boltpic2.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Firearms%20related/boltpic1.jpg[/img]
On my rifle there are no ill effect of the additional .195". It clears the PDS/T stock I have. The spacer is the same diamter as the BAS so the diamter shouldn't be an issue either. The spacer doesn't change the way the bolt handle ataches to the bolt itself, the bolt handle is still in the same position as before.
As for the longevity of the setup I don't know. I can say that these are ball bearings so if the orginal 38 special ball bearing idea has held up without deforming them I can't see why this wouldn't but who knows, only time will tell. I can see the plastic piece being an issue down the road though because I am unsure how solvents willl affect it or even grease for that matter. To remove the plastic carrier as well as make a similar setup for the cocking indicator bolts something else probably needs to be done. What I was thinking was machine the bottom of the BAS and put a small groove for the bearings to ride in then use the same size groove in a plate that covers the cocking piece. Basically having two grooved surfaces for the bearings to ride in but leave enough clearance so the BAS and cocking sleeve do not touch each other. The pressure of the spring would hold them in place. I think this would work and help out those with the new cocking indicator bolts.
I am not in this to make money, never was. I am in it to help out Savages as well as myself for the reasons I have mentioned before.
I do not own a shop or anything other than the tools most of you on this board already have.
I appreciate everybody for not turning this thread into the shit storm the previous thread was. And yes I admit the previous thread had a version that had issues that could have been bad and that is why the 8 people who got the previous version had certified letters sent to them notifying them as well as a SASE for them to send the part back. That is where the letter Mr Furious posted came from, the request quit using the previous part and return it at no cost to them.
Dolomite
If the powers that be ok it I'll post the info for the bearing.
They took it down when they posted the letter.
Dolomite